Florida Shooters Network

Disclaimer: Neither I nor this site supports violation of Federal firearms laws, regardless of how we feel about how they relate to the Constitution. Ahem.

So a customer brings an M2 Carbine to a local gun shop for a once-over/cleaning. The customer is not a gun person and has no idea that the M2 was a machine gun or illegal, and got it from a father/grandfather who brought it back from whichever war he fought in. The owner of the gun store realizes fairly quickly that it's an M2, and of course the customer has no documentation to make the weapon legal. Gun store takes it apart, takes a bunch of photos, posts them on their FB, then turns the rifle in to the ATF. Needless to say, there are quite a few folks that felt that the gun store did a bad thing, slams said store online to the point where they shut down their FB page and their review ratings are killed down to the 1-2 star ratings. Gun store's position is that if he returns the M2 to the owner, he has transferred a MG illegally, and is now guilty of a felony himself. Pro2A keyboard commandos feel that yes, that's true, but the ATF would have no way to know about it had he not blown the whistle himself.

My OPINION is that the liability of returning the M2 intact to the owner is too high for him to do it. We are talking about a felony and his livelihood. On the other hand, the rifle is of significant sentimental value to the family, and while the complete M2 has no value, the PARTS on it, are worth something. My OPINION, would be to completely disassemble the weapon. With photo or video documentation, cut up the M2 receiver, or remove the barrel/rear sight assembly. Give the non MG parts back to the owner, (or offer to help locate an M1 receiver and rebuild it as close as can be to original) and turn the FCG to the ATF with the center section of the receiver (if cut) or the entire receiver (if not). It still sucks for the owner, but sucks less, and the gun store owner does not have to worry about breaking the law.

What do you guys think?

Edit: I found the gunsmith providing some more clarification: It's not clear if the receiver is marked M1 or M2. According to the smith, he called the owner in and the owner told him that he didn't want it back and risk a fel-own-y. ATF agent was called, who said that if he can give the rifle back, sans the FA FCG, he will. We know THAT shit ain't happening, but it sounds nice at the time, I'm sure. If the receiver is marked M2, there's no way he'd get it back. M1, it depends. Smith also stated that he didn't know if it was a sting, and has seen other dealers get wrapped up in stings, and was nervous. YMMV.

What if it was a trap?
I would have told the customer, sorry we can’t clean your firearm and turn him away.


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Dude should have refused to work on it instead of being a bootlicker to an agency that shouldn't exist. Now the customer is out of a heirloom and his business is gonna forever be a pariah.

I'm not sure if he realized it was an M2 immediately or after the fact. While folks like most of us would recognize it immediately (Hey, what's this switch over here!?), maybe he isn't familiar with them and only realized it after the customer was gone. Now he's in possession of an unregistered MG.

It's easy to call him in a bootlicker, but he's playing with his freedom.

The guy may have had paperwork stashed away somewhere at his house, or dealer could have stripped everything down to the receiver and give him everything else back so he could have made a semi auto clone. what the dealer did was messed up and shameful to destroy a family treasure without consent or consideration

Wakko wrote: ↑Wed Jul 24, 2019 10:19 pm I'm not sure if he realized it was an M2 immediately or after the fact. While folks like most of us would recognize it immediately (Hey, what's this switch over here!?), maybe he isn't familiar with them and only realized it after the customer was gone. Now he's in possession of an unregistered MG.

It's easy to call him in a bootlicker, but he's playing with his freedom.

It's not an easy thing at all, but getting the government involved never helps, especially for victimless crimes.

"Gee Mr Customer, that is a neat piece. Would you mind getting it the duck out of until you have have the appropriate paperwork to accompany it? Here, have this pamphlet provided by the ATF to hopefully provide you with some guidance"


A dude walks into a gun shop with a belt fed machine-gun that Grandpappy smuggled back from "The War," I would not be putting my fingerprints on it.

t_bare

We call them Blue Falcons in the Military. Buddy Fuckers

Blue Falcons

Man, the stuff I learn here!

Pretty sucky all around, but there are a few big "IF"s left out of the story that we will likely never know.

According to this web site: http://www.uscarbinecal30.com/modelM2.html

IF the receiver were marked T4 or M2 => it's a machine gun.

IF the receiver were marked M1, then having the fully auto parts makes it a machine gun.

BUT, it sounds like that IF it were marked M1, the following parts could have been removed, making it no longer a machine gun:

Selector
Selector Spring
Disconnector Spring & Plunger
Disconnector
Disconnect Lever
Hammer

Is that how you guys read it? It seems that a gunsmith with his customer's best interests at heart would have at least looked into whether or not it could be turned into a non-machine gun simply by removing the parts. And, a competent gunsmith should have noticed the T4 or M2 marking before taking possession of the firearm.

I wonder if a good attorney could work up a claim against the gunsmith for depriving the customer of a valued cherished heirloom that likely had a significant value as a collector's piece, even with the parts removed. IF it were marked M1, that is.