I always said they would come after the arm brace.... Q, honey badger S & D from ATF

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Tenzing_Norgay
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Post by Tenzing_Norgay »

Big_mike wrote: Tue Oct 06, 2020 10:32 pm
Tenzing_Norgay wrote: Tue Oct 06, 2020 10:23 pm Measuring Up the LOP and OAL

Jeff also explained that the length of pull (LOP) needs to be kept in mind when building a pistol. The LOP is measured in a straight line from the face of the trigger to the rear of the brace. The rear of the brace is taken at its most extended position (if adjustable). “The ATF has advised that a braced pistol with a length of pull in excess of 13.5 inches may constitute a re-design of the brace into a stock.”

In addition to length of pull, overall length (OAL) should be measured. OAL is considered the muzzle — minus removable muzzle devices — to the rear of the brace (either collapsed or folded to be in its shortest form). “An OAL greater than 26 inches [has the potential to change] the classification of pistol to firearm. Firearms in excess of 26 inches OAL may have vertical grips installed and remain non-NFA. Pistols with vertical grips installed sub-26 inches OAL [can be] considered AOW and are subject to the NFA,” Jeff said.

In addition, “ATF is now advising that foregrips — angled or otherwise — may not be used on pistol builds.” Jeff also noted that those building AR and all large-framed or PDW pistols should be aware of states or jurisdictions that differ from federal law in definition and application. This means always check before transporting your AR-15 pistol into another jurisdiction.
Interesting. Where did you find this?

See: https://www.usconcealedcarry.com/blog/k ... al-limits/
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flcracker
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Post by flcracker »

I'm thinking that the combination of the >13" length of pull AND the cheek rest above the buffer tube which extends parallel to the top of the upper receiver is what pushed this specific design over the edge with respect to being "designed to be fired from the shoulder".
rentprop1 wrote: Tue Oct 06, 2020 9:35 pmWell I can't believe it's the people that would pay $169 for a new SBA 3, when a F1 to SBR is only 30 bucks more and you dont have a questionable ghey brace on it.
Argument against registering a pistol as an SBR with a Form 1 - you can transport a pistol across state lines without notifying the ATF. Not so with a registered SBR, unless you remove the stock and either install a pistol brace or rock the bare buffer tube. So, you're back to buying a brace if you like the profile of a stock and want to travel with it without notifying the .gov.
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Tenzing_Norgay
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Post by Tenzing_Norgay »

flcracker wrote: Wed Oct 07, 2020 8:31 am
rentprop1 wrote: Tue Oct 06, 2020 9:35 pmWell I can't believe it's the people that would pay $169 for a new SBA 3, when a F1 to SBR is only 30 bucks more and you dont have a questionable ghey brace on it.
Argument against registering a pistol as an SBR with a Form 1 - you can transport a pistol across state lines without notifying the ATF. Not so with a registered SBR, unless you remove the stock and either install a pistol brace or rock the bare buffer tube. So, you're back to buying a brace if you like the profile of a stock and want to travel with it without notifying the .gov.
And you've changed a pistol into a rifle which changes the rules (in some states) about where/when you can carry it. You can carry a pistol concealed in FL, you can't do that with a rifle.
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REDinFL
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Post by REDinFL »

Aw, gee. You mean I can't put an M-14 down my pants leg?
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flcracker
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Tenzing_Norgay wrote: Wed Oct 07, 2020 10:54 am And you've changed a pistol into a rifle which changes the rules (in some states) about where/when you can carry it. You can carry a pistol concealed in FL, you can't do that with a rifle.
I may be missing something, but I don't understand your statement. How does taking the stock off an SBR, then installing a pistol brace, constitute turning a pistol into a rifle? 🤔
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Post by photohause »

https://gunowners.org/na10072020/

NATIONAL ALERTS
TELL TRUMP TO REVERSE ATF’S RECLASSIFICATION OF HONEY BADGER PISTOL
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Written by Alan Rice Published: 07 October 2020
ATF Goes Rogue Once Again!


Once again, gun owners, manufacturers, and dealers are subject to the whims of the anti-gun bureaucrats who run the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms, and Explosives (ATF).

A Honey Badger pistol
The latest outrage is that they have reclassified Q, LLC’s Honey Badger Pistol as a Short Barrel Rifle (SBR) subject to regulation under the provisions of the National Firearms Act (NFA) including a $200 transfer tax.

Years after approving pistol braces and determining that a brace does not make a pistol into an SBR, rumors started to swirl that ATF was planning to reclassify these particular pistols into SBRs. But shortly after the rumors began, the National Shooting Sports Foundation claimed that they were in contact with ATF and that pistol braces were not being reviewed.

ATF’s new interpretation regarding the Q, LLC Honey Badger Pistol has created uncertainty for all gun owners, manufacturers and dealers. Click here to read the ATF letter to Q, LLC and click here to read Q’s response. This is a relatively simple issue that ATF has complicated.

GOA has had a copy of Gifford’s diabolical plan to outlaw not only pistol braces, but .50 caliber ammunition, certain handguns, and the Mossberg Shockwave for close to two years. Click here and go to page 7 for their false claims about pistol braces.

This is not a coincidence. One of Giffords’ advisors is David Chipman, who they tout as a retired ATF Special Agent. It is entirely plausible that Giffords has quietly worked to convince ATF to take a second look at pistol braces as well as many other previously approved firearms accessories.

Pistol braces have been a source of confusion for ATF for several years. In this letter, ATF said that if a shooter used a brace as a stock, then the firearm would become an SBR. They later retreated from that position. This is but one of the many reasons why GOA is pushing to repeal not just part of but all of the NFA.

The sad reality is that if Congress would do its job and pass legislation such as H.R. 5289, The Home Defense and Competitive Shooting Act, firearms owners would no longer be forced to figure out barrel length or determine if their firearm had a brace or a butt stock. Despite its lengthy name, H.R. 5289 will change federal law and allow SBRs to be bought and sold just like any other rifle. In short, H.R. 5289 removes SBRs from the provisions of the NFA.

The modern reality is that companies like Q, LLC sell tens of thousands of “pistol brace” equipped firearms because of the bureaucratic maze required to own an SBR. American citizens should not be forced to wait as long as nine months, be photographed, fingerprinted and taxed to purchase an SBR.

Or alternatively, they should not be forced to figure out what barrel, brace and receiver combination will make their newly assembled firearm a pistol (and not a rifle) and thus be excluded from the provisions of the NFA.

Here is what you need to do today. Scroll up to contact President Trump and let him know that you are counting on him to put a stop to this new ATF overreach and order them to reinstate the Honey Badger Pistol’s status as a pistol equipped with a brace. Then, contact your member of Congress and insist that they cosponsor H.R. 5289.

If Congress does not act to deregulate SBRs, gun owners will be forced to live in fear that that their handgun will be called an SBR or their Mossberg Shockwave could one day be reclassified as a short barrel shotgun.
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45caldan
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Post by 45caldan »

ATF laws are stupid!

An AR “pistol” with a brace is no more “deadly” than any other AR....
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Post by zeebaron »

The only reason they're going after them is because of the stupid "Q" meme name. Ruffled someone's commie jimmies in the BATFE...
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Tenzing_Norgay
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Post by Tenzing_Norgay »

flcracker wrote: Wed Oct 07, 2020 12:47 pm
Tenzing_Norgay wrote: Wed Oct 07, 2020 10:54 am And you've changed a pistol into a rifle which changes the rules (in some states) about where/when you can carry it. You can carry a pistol concealed in FL, you can't do that with a rifle.
I may be missing something, but I don't understand your statement. How does taking the stock off an SBR, then installing a pistol brace, constitute turning a pistol into a rifle? 🤔
I'm responding to Rent's comment (and yours). Rent is in favor of SBR'ing. Your argument against that idea is no crossing state lines. My argument against that idea is you can do more with a pistol than a rifle (or SBR). So...I was agreeing with you.
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