Miramar Shootout

[Captain Steinbrenner]

This is simply in my opinion. You have a hostage, you come up on a traffic jam, if you barricade them what do you think is really gonna happen? A shootout is what will most likely happen!! You let the go. You already have a helicopter on them and you have the swat team and negotiators available to you. Use your resources. All those cops that shot it out were most likely regular patrol guys. Meaning they have the basic yearly training. They also used civilians as their cover, like really? Wtf is wrong with you people. I see cops getting charged and the chief of police stepping down over this.

THIS!


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[305tillimoved]

What a clusterfuck of epic proportions.

[GunsandHoses]

You can rip me all you want....smoking crack (really man??)...but next situation like this, which was on the verge of being "active shooters", don't blame the cops if they hunker down...Waiting for SWAT or the hostage negotiators....give me a break.

Facts are, in a violent fluid situation, with perps who already exchanged gunfire with the jeweler and the cops...
Give those guys a medal....heroism come to mind.

Question: You want another coward/broward response???

It's a different era we're in....

I think if it were my loved one in that UPS vehicle, that's EXACTLY what I would have wanted them to do! As far as the coward/broward comment, two completely different actions by police! In one, cops didn't act and innocent people died! The other, cops rushed to act and maybe shouldn't have.....and innocent people died!
P.S. No medals for doing your job, ESPECIALLY NOT when innocent people died!

[wjbarricklow]

I'm surprised this is the first thread on this incident.
My office is on the 3rd floor of City Hall, above where a stray bullet pierced the window of the city clerks office.
The alley where the bad guys approached from (rear of store) I traverse it daily.

I state the above not to brag but to provide context.

Here's my take:
The LEOs that APPROACHED the threat thereby neutralize it deserved medles of honor!
Sad for the collateral damage BUT cops are NOW trained to run to the source of fire....
You'll want another MSD....look at the "coward of Broward"...he was waiting for SWAT and hostage negotiators.

The bad guys chose to stop at that location...they could've easily bashed and rammed across.
They were either stopping to surrender....highly unlikely.
Or, as many believe,
Make it their last stand and blow away as many civilians as their ammo supply permitted.

Then, public opinion would've been, "more cowards of Broward...Dade too.

So don't bash the cops. I DEMAND they rush the threat

Edit: I am not privy to the investigation as the FBI is in charged.
Irregardless, Gables PD would not be handling the case as it involved multiple homicides and the Gables does not have a Homicide Unit. Miami-Dade County PD, of which 13 out of the 19 that discharged their weapon are from, would be the lead investigation unit.

If the robbers were there just to kill citizens, why start there? Why wait until the cops get out of their cars? Why, then, shoot at the cops and not ordinary citizens?

I get that if the suspects started shooting at random people, it's an active shooter situation, and the cops need to engage. But if there weren't any cops to shoot at, it's likely no shots would have been fired.

The only possible justification I can imagine is if there was some reason to think they might take more hostages.

In any case, I don't think anyone would intentionally want to be in a shootout while hiding behind some soccer mom's SUV. I'm sure this incident will be played out for years, and some change in policy, training, or communication will be made.

I'm just glad there weren't more people killed. And I think there is a good lesson in seeing what happened here and getting the hell out of there, run red lights, push other cars out of the way, whatever you have to do, when you see that many blue lights chasing somebody.

[ABOC]

You can rip me all you want....smoking crack (really man??)...but next situation like this, which was on the verge of being "active shooters", don't blame the cops if they hunker down...Waiting for SWAT or the hostage negotiators....give me a break.

Facts are, in a violent fluid situation, with perps who already exchanged gunfire with the jeweler and the cops...
Give those guys a medal....heroism come to mind.

Question: You want another coward/broward response???

It's a different era we're in....

Yeah, it's the era of zio-media fed brain dead zombies who can't make a difference between a cop failing to engage an active shooter vs dozens of cops provoking an all out shooting in a civilian packed area for no valid reason whatsoever.

The only reason these cops engaged on the highway is because they were literally dozens of them from 5 different agencies trailing that slow moving truck. And the way they used civilian as human shields during the shooting they provoked makes them just as big a coward as the MSD guy and as dangerous to civilians as a terror group like ISIS.

[Joecruiser]

Again with the sophomoric insults.
Can't you grown ups articulate a conversation *or* engage in a debate without the insults?

Anyway, since I'm a "brain dead zombie" as an astute member called me, let me throw this at you:

Why hasn't the debate also focused on the perps?

Why hasn't the media or for that matter YOU ALL quick to blast the cops (pun)....not mentioned one perp was sentenced in 2009 to 10 years for armed robbery in Lee Count. He was released early in 2017.

Why hasn't the media etc., fault the jeweler. He could've locked the door after the perps fled.
Instead he fired away...one of his bullets, (my opinion based on the trajectory of the round, the location of the incident and the direction the perps fled). It traversed SW 42 avenue (Lejeune Road), Coral Gables....a very busy 4 lane road. The round also flew through Merrick Park....location of the city's Christmas Tree Lighting event.

But no....

Everyone just trashes the LEOs...and those standing up for them.
That's it...my last post in this thread.

[Skoll]

"everyone just trashes the LEOs"


Like we've been trying to tell you and that you apparently refuse to understand is that those cops should have known better than to take the perps down in that fashion. Why is it so hard to understand that? I'm not even a cop and in order to get my license so I could do armed contracting work I had to go through a lot of the same training the State mandates police have. The highway shootout was absolutely not the way any agency trains their officers to neutralize criminals in that situation. Instead, you keep implying that we support cowards and mass shooters because people with possibly more experience or knowledge than you know what they're talking about and disagree, and have the fucking gall to say we're sophomorically insulting you? What's worse? Being told you support a deranged psychopath that murdered 17 kids or getting called a brain dead zombie?

[Firemedic2000]

I'm surprised this is the first thread on this incident.
My office is on the 3rd floor of City Hall, above where a stray bullet pierced the window of the city clerks office.
The alley where the bad guys approached from (rear of store) I traverse it daily.

I state the above not to brag but to provide context.

Here's my take:
The LEOs that APPROACHED the threat thereby neutralize it deserved medles of honor!
Sad for the collateral damage BUT cops are NOW trained to run to the source of fire....
You'll want another MSD....look at the "coward of Broward"...he was waiting for SWAT and hostage negotiators.

The bad guys chose to stop at that location...they could've easily bashed and rammed across.
They were either stopping to surrender....highly unlikely.
Or, as many believe,
Make it their last stand and blow away as many civilians as their ammo supply permitted.

Then, public opinion would've been, "more cowards of Broward...Dade too.

Well here's my take on what your posted.

First I don't care what happened at your job. It has zero to do with this incident.

Secondly you feel these idiots in unform deserve a metal.
For what being stupid.

Plus to say if they had not returned fire they'd be called cowards. Plus this was a totally different from Broward Co. shooting.

Your comment of Sad for the collateral damage BUT cops are NOW trained to run to the source of fire....

That's their damn job in the first place. What did they do before this so called training. Run away from the crime.

The main difference is to know when to shoot and not to shoot. Depending on situation.

This was the most outrageous incident I've seen.

But what's even more outrageous is you defending it by saying Sad for the collateral damage BUT cops are NOW trained to run to the source of fire....and start shooting or they'd be called cowards

Plus comparing to what happened at your nice city job. I'd bet you 1000.00 that if that was your son, dad or any other family member that was shot and or killed by the stupidy of these idiots in unform.

You'd damn sure be singing a different tune than your B.S of defending their actions and calling the ups driver and innocient bystander that was murdered by their ignorance.

If you, I or anyone here had acted in a similar manor in the same exact incident. We'd be in damn jail with murder charges for killing innocent Americans.

Yet because these fools wear a badge you consider them immune from the exact same thing all others would be charged for.

You comment calling these innocient people that were murdered essentially collateral damage.

The robbers started shooting when police approach the van. They should have held back.

Plus to incinuate that robbers killed the driver and innocent bystanders with your last statement. You did not say it. But that's the way it sounds.

Or, as many believe, 

Make it their last stand and blow away as many civilians as their ammo supply permitted.

Sorry buddy your the first I've heard that support their irresponsible handling of this. Most in no way believe as you.

Then the stupid comment that cops should get a metal of honor for screwing up a hostage situation and going in guns blazing killing hostage and an innocent bystander.

Are you serious or joking.

To defend this in anyway is reprehensible. This was about as F'ed up a thing I've seen.

Again just because cops kill innocent people that does not make them colateral damage.

It's murder because that's how every one else in America would be charged.

Hero's my ass. That takes the cake. To many in L.E. today are too eager to kill someone or something including bad ass Chihuahuas.

Innocient people died because L.E.O.s were more interested in killing robbers than protecting innocent UPS driver and bystanders.

These officers took US SUPREME COURT ruling about not having to protect innocient Americans seriously.

These officers that shot and killed UPS driver and bystander should be charged with murder. Damn sure not get a metal of honor

Go shine your badge.

I'm going to stop here. I can't talk with a (mute ) that said what you did. Go back to work in your police dept.

[Firemedic2000]

You can rip me all you want....smoking crack (really man??)...but next situation like this, which was on the verge of being "active shooters", don't blame the cops if they hunker down...Waiting for SWAT or the hostage negotiators....give me a break.

Facts are, in a violent fluid situation, with perps who already exchanged gunfire with the jeweler and the cops...
Give those guys a medal....heroism come to mind.

Question: You want another coward/broward response???

It's a different era we're in....

Going in guns blazing was stupid and as a few have said. This was not a mass shooting incident like Broward.

This was a hostage situation. Hunker down and wait for swat and negotiator is exactly what they should have done.

The L.E.Os instigate the shooting by olaying Rambo.

WTF is wrongwith you. Oh wait Joecruiser tells me everything I need to know about you.

L.E.Os will if it's not caught on video. Cover and justify everything their brothers in blue do.

How many innocient Americans have been murder by stupid raids and other crap. Then be called calateral damage.

A innocient human life when it comes to L.E. is most certainly not colateral damage. It's called stupidity and murder.

Cops whine they get no respect are hated and despised.
Well they bring it on themselves. Because they let their brothers break laws and call us colateral damage.

Just like you did. Unless your a cop your colateral damage.

They wonder why so many people, no why the colateral damage do not trust or like them.

They were not heros they acted just like a squad in a war zone would have. So you believe unless they engage and start killing they are cowards.

These idiots were most certainly not trained to act like this. If they were people need to be fired and people need to be jailed.

Because if that's what L.E.Os consider Americans as you put it, colateral damage. You could not pay me enough to put that uniform on.

I do not trust L.E. I've seen them lie and cover for each other. Even falsely charge people.

So go get in your cruiser and go back to work.

[Firemedic2000]

Again with the sophomoric insults.
Can't you grown ups articulate a conversation *or* engage in a debate without the insults?

Anyway, since I'm a "brain dead zombie" as an astute member called me, let me throw this at you:

Why hasn't the debate also focused on the perps?

Why hasn't the media or for that matter YOU ALL quick to blast the cops (pun)....not mentioned one perp was sentenced in 2009 to 10 years for armed robbery in Lee Count. He was released early in 2017.

Why hasn't the media etc., fault the jeweler. He could've locked the door after the perps fled.
Instead he fired away...one of his bullets, (my opinion based on the trajectory of the round, the location of the incident and the direction the perps fled). It traversed SW 42 avenue (Lejeune Road), Coral Gables....a very busy 4 lane road. The round also flew through Merrick Park....location of the city's Christmas Tree Lighting event.

But no....

Everyone just trashes the LEOs...and those standing up for them.
That's it...my last post in this thread.

Because as usual L.E. agencies are not accepting responsibility for their actions that resulted in the deaths of the hostage and innocient driver.

They cover for each other. Sure their was a robbery and a hostage situation.

But because of the so called training you said they had. Which I seriouly doubt. They not the robbers killed and are responsible to killing innocent people.

You saying robbers were going to empty their guns into innocient people is B.S. but cops sure did and it's on video.

I hope you don't post again ever.

I'm sorry but your posts and even remotely defending L.E. responsibility in killing these innocent people.

Then to call INNOCIENT PEOPLE COLATERAL DAMAGE. You insinuating that it's just fine for LEOs to murder, no to expect colateral damage is just bullshit.

If a L.E.O. kills an innocent person then they F'ed up and should be charged. Those that LEOs kill are NOT COLATERAL DAMAGE.

They are someone's son, father, mother, sister ect.....both of those you called colateral damage had families. A wife, children ect...

This saying with LEOs about going home after each shift. Cop's lives are no more or less valuable than what they and you consider colateral damage. Their live is no more or less value than any innocent America's life.

Firefighter go to work knowing they may have to sacrafice their lifes to save others. What do police call innocent PEOPLE'S LIVES COLATERAL DAMAGE.



But hey if police want to run because they can't shoot recklessly with no regards and no fear of consequences if they kill or as you said have colateral damage.

So be it. It's better than them hiding behind a badge thinking it's a license to have colateral damage.

Further more not one person here is trashing cops. We are trashing you. Your defending the killing and calling people colateral damage. Insinuating that it's just fine.

You calling innocent people colateral damage and say that LEOs should not be responsible for killing innocient people. Even calling them HEROS and should get medals.

You have a twisted mind and should retire from L.E. You are a dangerous liability.

I wish we had a block tab.