Good news for those who dig 80%ers, kind of. Seems the new "rule" only applies to kits, I will let dude explain. Never the less its shear insanity and over reach on the ATF's part, should never have gotten this far to begin with IMHO.
Re: 80% receiver update
Posted: Thu Aug 18, 2022 11:34 am
by N4KVE
Meanwhile I’m still trying to figure out why a 80% unserialized receiver doesn’t cost 20% less than a 100% serialized receiver. Many times the 80% receiver costs 50%-100% more than the 100% receiver. Since there’s less machining steps, & no ATF paperwork, they should cost less than a complete receiver. I guess since the 80% receiver is a loophole designed to allow someone with a problematic background to get a receiver without filling out the 4473, or submit to a FDLE background check, they will pay more to get what they normally couldn’t buy. The last Anderson receiver I bought from Vito was $50. I haven’t seen a 80% receiver under $100. GARY.
Re: 80% receiver update
Posted: Thu Aug 18, 2022 8:06 pm
by Racer88
N4KVE wrote: ↑Thu Aug 18, 2022 11:34 am
Meanwhile I’m still trying to figure out why a 80% unserialized receiver doesn’t cost 20% less than a 100% serialized receiver. Many times the 80% receiver costs 50%-100% more than the 100% receiver. Since there’s less machining steps, & no ATF paperwork, they should cost less than a complete receiver. I guess since the 80% receiver is a loophole designed to allow someone with a problematic background to get a receiver without filling out the 4473, or submit to a FDLE background check, they will pay more to get what they normally couldn’t buy. The last Anderson receiver I bought from Vito was $50. I haven’t seen a 80% receiver under $100. GARY.
First.... no. The 80% receivers do not cost more than 100% receivers. Every serialized 100% receiver I've seen available online is priced higher than any 80% I've ever paid for (many). About $150. Most of my P80s were under $100.
Then you also have to add another ~$30 for the transfer / NICS check fee from your local FFL for a 100% serialized frame. So, for a serialized P80, it's getting close to $200 by the time you're all done.
Ah... as I write this, I realize maybe you're referring to AR-15 receivers. Yes? My experience is with Polymer80 (Glock clone) frames. Though I recently bought two 80% AR-15 receivers for $42 each. I haven't done anything with them, yet. No plans in the near future... Just wanted to grab'em while we could.
Secondly.... your assertion that P80s are "designed to allow someone with a problematic background to get a receiver without filling out the 4473, or submit to a FDLE background check, they will pay more to get what they normally couldn’t buy" is amusing. It's a regurgitation of the narrative from the political anti-2A left.
The vast majority of 80% builders I've encountered are rather avid gun owners, and as such... also own a LOT of factory / serialized firearms. They aren't trying to "avoid" anything, nor do they have "problematic" backgrounds. They are firearms enthusiasts who find building a reliable working firearm to be very rewarding. Ask me how I know.
Also, I submit that anyone with a "problematic background" would find it FAR cheaper to buy a factory gun on the black market than to build a P80. I also dare suggest that such problematic people are not likely to spend the time and effort required to build a FUNCTIONAL and RELIABLE privately made firearm. Contrary to the media / political narrative, building one that WORKS will take a LOT longer than the purported 30 - 60 minutes. My first build took me about 40 HOURS. But, it WORKS. It has been flawless with 1,800 rounds fired without a single malfunction.
N4KVE wrote: ↑Thu Aug 18, 2022 11:34 am
Meanwhile I’m still trying to figure out why a 80% unserialized receiver doesn’t cost 20% less than a 100% serialized receiver. Many times the 80% receiver costs 50%-100% more than the 100% receiver. Since there’s less machining steps, & no ATF paperwork, they should cost less than a complete receiver. I guess since the 80% receiver is a loophole designed to allow someone with a problematic background to get a receiver without filling out the 4473, or submit to a FDLE background check, they will pay more to get what they normally couldn’t buy. The last Anderson receiver I bought from Vito was $50. I haven’t seen a 80% receiver under $100. GARY.
First.... no. The 80% receivers do not cost more than 100% receivers. Every serialized 100% receiver I've seen available online is priced higher than any 80% I've ever paid for (many). About $150. Most of my P80s were under $100.
Then you also have to add another ~$30 for the transfer / NICS check fee from your local FFL for a 100% serialized frame. So, for a serialized P80, it's getting close to $200 by the time you're all done.
Ah... as I write this, I realize maybe you're referring to AR-15 receivers. Yes? My experience is with Polymer80 (Glock clone) frames. Though I recently bought two 80% AR-15 receivers for $42 each. I haven't done anything with them, yet. No plans in the near future... Just wanted to grab'em while we could.
Secondly.... your assertion that P80s are "designed to allow someone with a problematic background to get a receiver without filling out the 4473, or submit to a FDLE background check, they will pay more to get what they normally couldn’t buy" is amusing. It's a regurgitation of the narrative from the political anti-2A left.
The vast majority of 80% builders I've encountered are rather avid gun owners, and as such... also own a LOT of factory / serialized firearms. They aren't trying to "avoid" anything, nor do they have "problematic" backgrounds. They are firearms enthusiasts who find building a reliable working firearm to be very rewarding. Ask me how I know.
Also, I submit that anyone with a "problematic background" would find it FAR cheaper to buy a factory gun on the black market than to build a P80. I also dare suggest that such problematic people are not likely to spend the time and effort required to build a FUNCTIONAL and RELIABLE privately made firearm. Contrary to the media / political narrative, building one that WORKS will take a LOT longer than the purported 30 - 60 minutes. My first build took me about 40 HOURS. But, it WORKS. It has been flawless with 1,800 rounds fired without a single malfunction.
Wanted to hit the "like button".
Getting these to run smooth and reliably takes more than a half hour AND one needs to have some mechanical abilities!
Yes the post above yours sounds like someone has been watching too much CNN....
Re: 80% receiver update
Posted: Fri Aug 19, 2022 10:25 am
by N4KVE
Just last week at a gun show working for Ira, a guy was looking at some used mags Ira had accumulated over the decades, & was selling. He had one of those 80% Glock look alikes, & was asking if we had Glock mags. We sold all the genuine ones, so I showed him the Glock copies. He said “those aren’t Glock mags”, to which I replied “that’s not a Glock”. Ira asked me what he needed, & when I showed him the gun he replied “we don’t have anything for that $hit. Have a nice day”. August 24 is pretty close. GARY. https://www.cbsnews.com/news/ghost-guns-new-rule/
Re: 80% receiver update
Posted: Fri Aug 19, 2022 2:13 pm
by Racer88
N4KVE wrote: ↑Fri Aug 19, 2022 10:25 am
Just last week at a gun show working for Ira, a guy was looking at some used mags Ira had accumulated over the decades, & was selling. He had one of those 80% Glock look alikes, & was asking if we had Glock mags. We sold all the genuine ones, so I showed him the Glock copies. He said “those aren’t Glock mags”, to which I replied “that’s not a Glock”. Ira asked me what he needed, & when I showed him the gun he replied “we don’t have anything for that $hit. Have a nice day”. August 24 is pretty close. GARY. https://www.cbsnews.com/news/ghost-guns-new-rule/
It's true... we ARE our own worst enemies. I find the vacuous and reflexive disdain for PMFs (privately made firearms) - especially Polymer80s - disappointing and sad. It's also intellectually inconsistent when those same people rave about AR-15 builds.
I'm a LONG time firearms enthusiast and 2nd Amendment advocate. I've owned all sorts of factory-made firearms (and love them). But, I'll put my personal builds up against ANY factory firearm. They are not "$hit" by any stretch.
My first build (G34 clone): It has 1,800 rounds through it. Not a single malfunction.
My 2nd build (G19 clone): 550 flawless rounds through it.
My 3rd build (another G19 clone) is "Goldi" posted in my previous comment above. 285 rounds without a single malfunction.
I also own three factory Glocks, including my first pistol ever - Gen 2 Glock 19.
The point is that there is room in the hobby / passion for all sorts of guns and approaches to enjoying them. There is no need to disparage any particular faction within the firearms enthusiast community.
Re: 80% receiver update
Posted: Fri Aug 19, 2022 3:30 pm
by N4KVE
They’re not going away, you’ll just have to fill out the 4473 now, & it will have a serial number. So for an enthusiast, you’ll still build your own creation. But does anyone honestly think sales will continue at the same rate once this law takes effect? GARY
Re: 80% receiver update
Posted: Fri Aug 19, 2022 3:38 pm
by Racer88
N4KVE wrote: ↑Fri Aug 19, 2022 3:30 pm
They’re not going away, you’ll just have to fill out the 4473 now, & it will have a serial number. So for an enthusiast, you’ll still build your own creation. But does anyone honestly think sales will continue at the same rate once this law takes effect? GARY
It's not a law. It's a rule. An unconstitutional rule at that. Two recent SCOTUS decisions factor in. First, the NYRPC vs Bruen (2A) case. But perhaps not as obvious but even more significant is the West Virginia vs EPA decision which ruled that alphabet agencies do NOT have the authority to make law. Only Congress can make law.... especially criminal law.
In federal court just this week, the attorney for the Aye-Tee-Eff admitted that they cannot stop / regulate the sale of 80% frames... But, that the new rule prohibits the sale of the 80% frame AND the jig AND the instructions. Whoa!!!
So, things are very much up in the air.
The serialized versions of the frames from Polymer80 are not 80% frames. They are 100% frames. So, there's no modification or finishing (drilling, cutting, shaping, polishing of the tabs and blocks) with the serialized frames. That takes away a big part of the "building" experience. The VAST majority of builders are simply not interested in ASSEMBLING a gun on a finished frame. Not the same thing.
So, things are about to get interesting. But, it LOOKS like we WILL be able to get 80% frames directly without any background checks or FFLs. They will simply not be able to sell the jigs WITH the frames or include instructions aka "kits."
I'm not holding my breath for WHEN this will be definitively decided. But it looks like a very strong possibility and possibly fairly soon.
In the mean time, many of us builders stocked up on 80% frames.
Re: 80% receiver update
Posted: Fri Aug 19, 2022 6:24 pm
by NorincoKid
Racer88 wrote: ↑Fri Aug 19, 2022 3:38 pm
In the mean time, many of us builders stocked up on 80% frames.
I'm trying lol, but I'm so broke I can't even pay attention.
I've seen the panic emails from some AR and AK 80% sellers, but nothing "panic" about other stuff...like tubes (SMG) or flats (HK)
I haven't paid too much attention to all thats going on though.
