Florida Shooters Network

I suppose if you could hold the cop or the department he works for accountable, we would see less of these half ass arrests ?

wjbarricklow wrote:People here are arguing that your firearm has to be securely encased despite your permit, but no one has showed me where it says that.

FS 790.25(5). If your gun is not on you in your car, it doesn't matter whether you have a license or not. The license only covers you in your car when the gun is on your person. I'll say read the book again because Gutmacher clearly states several times that the statutes contradict themselves.

Sorry you went through all of that, but glad its behind you !

Tim

XDTim wrote:Sorry you went through all of that, but glad its behind you !

Tim

Shhhhh, don't say "behind" to him. Brings up some uncomfortable memories.






J/K

czharry wrote:

XDTim wrote:Sorry you went through all of that, but glad its behind you !

Tim

Shhhhh, don't say "behind" to him. Brings up some uncomfortable memories.






J/K

Yeh no shit...
I was rather happy when the shut the cell doors.... alone in a cell is better than that big dark fella eyeballing me in the common area....

Oh, MAN.................

FS 790.25(5). If your gun is not on you in your car, it doesn't matter whether you have a license or not. The license only covers you in your car when the gun is on your person.

That's not what it says. The statute says it applies to people "without a license".

We discussed this before. Here it is from: encounters-with-leos-while-carrying-t58795-20.html

Postby False Prophet » Sat Jul 04, 2009 3:04 pm

"Concealed" is the key here. If I can see it, it isn't concealed and you will more than likely be removed from your vehicle. According to FL law, carrying concealed means "on or about your person" which means that it's either on your person or within your reach. That's why you can carry a gun in a purse or briefcase even though it's technically not on your person. According to Gutmacher's book (pg 72) he says that concealed carry "means you could have it within reach, under a towel in your car. No it doesn't have to be in a holster!".

mjmensale:

I'll say read the book again because Gutmacher clearly states several times that the statutes contradict themselves.

If you quote the book and show me where he says that 790.25 (5) supercedes your concealed weapons permit, I'll drop it. If not, I'll let it rest for now, and when I get back in to town next weekend, I'll look this up, because I remember seeing the same quote in the Florida Firearms Law about a gun under a towel. If he cites a case, I'll look that up, too, and post it here.

Looking back at the old thread, I see we've been arguing about this since the summer of 2009.
Good God, you're stubborn, Moe.

They have different laws in Boca since Mayor Bloomberfg and the City of NY annexed SE Fla.

Here is another twist to consider...I have a CWL, my wife does not. So to keep both of us "compliant" it is either on me concealed or enclosed in a center console or glovebox. Also keep in a holster (no snap) to keep the trigger safe. This way no matter what seat we sit in up front we are covered. I've read some keep the gun holstered under(attached) to the dash out of sight. If no snap then I'm assuming that's gonna be trouble for non CWL holder.

Vinnie357 wrote:Here is another twist to consider...I have a CWL, my wife does not. So to keep both of us "compliant" it is either on me concealed or enclosed in a center console or glovebox. Also keep in a holster (no snap) to keep the trigger safe. This way no matter what seat we sit in up front we are covered. I've read some keep the gun holstered under(attached) to the dash out of sight. If no snap then I'm assuming that's gonna be trouble for non CWL holder.

This is the situation for me and my wife. I have a permit she doesn't. We have a Maxpedition bag that zippers shut to cover the securely encased argument. I usually use the bag for carry anyways but if I was out and about and asked her to bring me my pistol all she has to do is grab the bag and transport it without having to remove it from a holster etc. (I work at a school so sometimes I ask her to bring me my "stuff" so I can run errands after work)

Droanx wrote:This is the situation for me and my wife. I have a permit she doesn't. We have a Maxpedition bag that zippers shut to cover the securely encased argument. I usually use the bag for carry anyways but if I was out and about and asked her to bring me my pistol all she has to do is grab the bag and transport it without having to remove it from a holster etc. (I work at a school so sometimes I ask her to bring me my "stuff" so I can run errands after work)

While your wife is in the car there's no problem but if she then manually carries the bag to you outside of the car she's guilty of a 3rd degree felony per 790.01(2). Have her get a license.

mjmensale wrote:

Droanx wrote:This is the situation for me and my wife. I have a permit she doesn't. We have a Maxpedition bag that zippers shut to cover the securely encased argument. I usually use the bag for carry anyways but if I was out and about and asked her to bring me my pistol all she has to do is grab the bag and transport it without having to remove it from a holster etc. (I work at a school so sometimes I ask her to bring me my "stuff" so I can run errands after work)

While your wife is in the car there's no problem but if she then manually carries the bag to you outside of the car she's guilty of a 3rd degree felony per 790.01(2). Have her get a license.

I know that this is the correct answer, but this begs another question...

Since Florida law allows an unlicensed person to legally carry in a vehicle, if she lives in a multi-family dwelling such as condo or apartment community, how would she ever legally take the pistol from her home to her vehicle?

Enoch wrote:I know that this is the correct answer, but this begs another question...

Since Florida law allows an unlicensed person to legally carry in a vehicle, if she lives in a multi-family dwelling such as condo or apartment community, how would she ever legally take the pistol from her home to her vehicle?

Legally, you can't. Therefore, be vewwy, vewwy quiet about it. Then bitch to the legislature to fix this.

mjmensale wrote:

Droanx wrote:This is the situation for me and my wife. I have a permit she doesn't. We have a Maxpedition bag that zippers shut to cover the securely encased argument. I usually use the bag for carry anyways but if I was out and about and asked her to bring me my pistol all she has to do is grab the bag and transport it without having to remove it from a holster etc. (I work at a school so sometimes I ask her to bring me my "stuff" so I can run errands after work)

While your wife is in the car there's no problem but if she then manually carries the bag to you outside of the car she's guilty of a 3rd degree felony per 790.01(2). Have her get a license.

I own my house so she can walk it from the house to the car in the driveway and I meet her at the car and grab it myself. I already thought of that.

I am not going to tell her to do anything. If she wants a permit she knows I'll support her. If you are married you know what it is like to "make" your spouse do something

Droanx:

I am not going to tell her to do anything. If she wants a permit she knows I'll support her. If you are married you know what it is like to "make" your spouse do something

Yup. I've been trying for years to get my wife a CWP. I'd pay for someone to do a class for her just to get her safe around firearms, or to cover any gray areas if she borrows my car, and there's a pistol in it somewhere. No luck so far.

Moe:

Some quotes from Florida Firearms Law:

Page 88:

... it seems that a lot of Florida drivers think that having a firearm wedged under the seat is legal. However, unless you have a CWP- it's only legal if it's also "securely encased". If not - it's the felony of "carrying a concealed firearm".

The corollary to this is obviously that a firearm under the seat, even if not securely encased, is legal for someone with a CWP. Because it is concealed about his person.

Page 97:

Under the law, you can transport a firearm in a vehicle "securely encased", "not readily accessible for immediate use", or both. Likewise, if you have a concealed permit, you also have the option of carrying concealed on or about your person.

Again, "also" implies an additional right beyond the right to a firearm "securely encased". A right to carry a firearm about your person.

Also page 88. This is about as clear as it gets that Gutmacher's opinion is that the CWP trumps "securely encased":

... it is my firm opinion (again, no case law) that a person with a valid CWP has the option of carrying a firearm either "securely encased" - or - fully concealed on or about their immediate person. Thus, while I really don't recommend it - if you if you have a CWP and wanted to put your firearm under a thick towel on the front seat next to you within reaching distance - my opinion is that it's covered by your permit as it is "concealed", and is therefore legal. However, make sure it's fully concealed - otherwise it's "open carry", and a misdemeanor!

A snubby or even a baby Glock in an ankle holster works well for car carry.

I'd like to know how you guys secure your carry piece when you're in your vehicle.

I seldom have to leave my firearm unattended in my vehicle however,

Instead of a break in to me box aka car safe I just secured a holster under the dashboard towards the rear end of the steering column.

It is a bit of a pain to reach up and under and securing the pistol takes a good fifteen seconds however I would imagine this would be the last place a smash and grab type of robber breaking in to someone's automobile would look.

You could also explore hiding a firearm behind various plastic panels.

wjbarricklow wrote:Good God, you're stubborn, Moe.

No, just overly cautious sometimes. Anyway, I asked Gutmacher directly since the book seems to contradict itself in places and this is what he says:

sorry if it's confusing. With a cwp you have the option of carry either securely encased or concealed. If concealed -- it can be anywhere in the passenger compartment within reach of the CWP holder, including concealed on the person of the CWP holder.

hope that makes it clear

jhg

So it appears that I am being more cautious than I need to be. And while my license would allow me to theoretically have it under a towel on the seat next to me, I'm in no mood to discuss the statute's nuances with any LEOs so I'll just keep it in the center console like I've always done.