Florida Shooters Network

I am considering filing, as I have an attraction to old battle rifles, and would like to grow my collection.
But im wondering if there are any downsides, or even possible down sides that you can think of?
Questions I have would be.
I know I have to send a copy to the chief LEO in the area. But who else has access to lists of "licensed firearms collectors"?
Are there storage requirements?
Can your collection ever be inspected in anyway?

Any other concerns you can think of?
Just one freedom loving Americans questions involving the process...
Thanks for your help.

The ATF is allowed to come into your house anytime they want, usually by kicking in the door, they can confiscate anything they find (including your new flat screen TV), then have sex with your wife and daughter. One of them will usually piss on your pillow before spray painting "Kilroy was here" on your house before leaving.

Here's a photo I took of my neighbor's house after his latest CR inspection. This is just the line of guys waiting to bang his wife.

The C&R is a good thing. I let mine lapse, but sending a copy to the CLEO is only a formality, they have no say over anything. I stapled a cover letter saying this was a courtesy as required by the ATF & they can file it or toss it in the trash like everyone else does.
I heard they started doing one compliance inspection, but the guys said it was mostly a courtesy call where they bring pamphlets and tell you about safe storage. Always friendly. They can, at some point, require an inspection of your collection and Bound Book at your convenience. It does not have to be in your home, you can load up your stuff & bound book and take it their office. You only list the C&R guns you buy using the license, in the bound book, not the ones you already had.
I have never known of anyone ever being inspected, but it could happen.
There is really no downside to getting an 03FFL.

Upside is that you make lots of copies, then sign only the copies and send them to all the vendors to put on file. You'll get on their mailing lists and a lot of vendors will give you a discount, like Brownells, for instance.
Want a C&R gun from AIM or another vendor? Buy it over the phone or online and they ship it to your front door.

Your credit cards will be maxed out in 6 months!!!

Rentprop1 wrote:

czharry wrote: You only list the C&R guns you buy using the license, in the bound book, not the ones you already had.

Harry an FYI for ya, I'm in the same boat, I let mine lapse before the Obama election, however when I inquired about re-applying I was told since I am a previous licensee, I do need to list that license number on the application and also keep handy that Bound Book from my previous license, but I do not need to list any previously owned C & R guns in the new BB. Its confusing to me cause I found out once your license lapses you no longer need to maintain a BB.

OK, I didn't know that about the previous license & BB. But being a member of the C&R forums on Guns Network (active in '03-ish), I would read that the ATF sorta made up the rules as they went along, depending on the location.
I also thought the same about the BB when your license lapses. I still have mine, but what if I didn't? Also, on that forum, newbies would always ask, "I have 1 (or a few) C&R eligable guns I've had way before I got my license. Should I also list those in my BB?" Of course, the answer is 'No' (per the rules), but some guys would say something like, "I would rather be safe than sorry so I list every eligable gun I ever bought, even before I got my license." Stuff like that would only confuse people, showing that they didn't read or didn't understand the regs.

aquajon wrote:

czharry wrote:I have never known of anyone ever being inspected/quote]

6 months after I got my license they showed up unannounced at my home. They are suppose to arrange a convenient time, 24 hours in advance and you have the option of doing it in your home or at their office. They are only able to do this once per year, but the ass hat showed up at my gate trying to get in.

I remember that, I think. Hindsight being good, If I would have had a copy of the regulations, and it was not convenient for me, I may have reminded them about the 24 hr notice and I would be more than happy to stop by their office on another day (if I wasn't intimidated by their persence).
My recollections come from the pre-obama era and what I read on the Gunsnet C&R Forums.

aquajon wrote:That is basically what I did. I told him to leave and I would call his office to arrange a time to bring my inventory and bound book to him.

I've had a C&R for 20 years, and bought hundreds of guns with zero inspections. Before reading this I've only heard of 2 other cases of inspections. One was a new licensee who went crazy and bought 150 guns in a few months. The other was by a new agent who had just transferred from the Manufacturing Compliance division and had no idea what a C&R was. She ended up with a reprimand from her supervisor.

Maybe your inspections are some of the fallout from the Florida version of Fast and Furious?

In any case just keep the damned book accurately and you'll be OK. No limits on purchases or on sales in quantity or time as long as the primary purpose is enhancing your collection, NOT RUNNING A BUSINESS. You can make a profit but it has to be incidental. And chances are near 100% if you accounted for all expenses like a business would there'd be no profit anyway.
Enter any C&Rs you buy after getting the license whether you use it or not to buy them.
Enter any sales of C&Rs you make after getting the license. At that time enter any of them that became C&Rs after you bought them - i.e. 50 years old or went on the C&R list. Put down "Private Collection" as the acquisition source at that time.
Keep everything else out of the book. Bound Books and formats are readily available online.
And make a bunch of copies of your license, save the original, sign the copies when you send them to a seller.

BTW I'd need a pretty large van to carry my current collection to the ATF office and they'd probably take one look at the guns and tell me to forget it because it'd block entrance to their office for hours. All of them were "free*" after buying in quantity, pouncing on bargains, and selling or trading off the culls, thanks to my C&R.

* Counting buying cost and selling prices, shipping, only. No other overhead.

And it made me proud.

I saw one of those before the ATF made them change the title from "ATF'S guide to Firearms Laws". It had lots of pictures and very short sentences in large font.

I almost let my C&R lapse three years ago, mainly because at the time there was a rash of inspections going on (had a friend who applied for his first C&R and got a pre-inspection, and another friend who was inspected for the first time after having a license for about 10+ years--the rest were increased number of folks on the internet who where getting their first inspections). I renewed primarily because of the discount at Brownells, Midway USA, and Grafs. More than pays for the license (like 1000X over). There really is just nothing new being imported, and I (for the most part) have everything I want. I am coming up for renewal again this October, and probably will renew (again for the discount).
It is a license to spend money.

Rentprop1 wrote:

czharry wrote: You only list the C&R guns you buy using the license, in the bound book, not the ones you already had.

when I inquired about re-applying I was told since I am a previous licensee, I do need to list that license number on the application and also keep handy that Bound Book from my previous license, but I do not need to list any previously owned C & R guns in the new BB. Its confusing to me cause I found out once your license lapses you no longer need to maintain a BB.

anyone got a reference to this rule?

I see the check box on the form but no further or other information about impact on answering yes to it.

i guess technically maintaining the BB(ie keeping it current) vs holding on to it as a record is different but I was always under the impression that if the FFL03 lapses, there is no need to hold on to it. How can they require you to have it "handy" again....unless there is some grace period to counter ppl which will let their FFL expire for a day and then reapply in order to skirt BB requirements.
RP1: how long was your FFL03 expired when you asked about it?

If your license lapses and you have to reapply you start all over again with a new bound book.

C&R firearms you own and are in the previous book are only listed in the new one when and if you sell them.

Regardless of the regulations I'd keep any and all bound books until the mold devours them. As my late mother in law used to say: They don't eat bread." and may be useful if any ATF agent ever shows up going through that act of futility known as "tracing".

Earth to ATF: Crime guns are always lost or stolen.

And I'm not one bit afraid of an inspection because keeping an accurate and complete bound book is absolute insurance against any problems. The agent's career is on the line if they ever bring any sort of action against you that isn't justified by your records.