Florida Shooters Network

http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/ ... ory_1.html

For Romney and Paul, a strategic alliance between establishment and outsider
By Amy Gardner, Published: February 1 Washington Post

RENO, NEV. — The remaining candidates in the winnowed Republican presidential field are attacking one another with abandon, each day bringing fresh headlines of accusations and outrage.

But Mitt Romney and Ron Paul haven’t laid a hand on each other.

They never do.

Despite deep differences on a range of issues, Romney and Paul became friends in 2008, the last time both ran for president. So did their wives, Ann Romney and Carol Paul. The former Massachusetts governor compliments the Texas congressman during debates, praising Paul’s religious faith during the last one, in Jacksonville, Fla. Immediately afterward, as is often the case, the Pauls and the Romneys gravitated toward one another to say hello.

The Romney-Paul alliance is more than a curious connection. It is a strategic partnership: for Paul, an opportunity to gain a seat at the table if his long-shot bid for the presidency fails; for Romney, a chance to gain support from one of the most vibrant subgroups within the Republican Party.

“It would be very foolish for anybody in the Republican Party to dismiss a very real constituency,” said one senior GOP aide in Washington who is familiar with both camps. “Ron Paul plays a very valuable part in the process and brings a lot of voters toward the Republican Party and ultimately into the voting booth, and that’s something that can’t be ignored.”

To ensure that they are heard — not just now but after Election Day, too — Paul and his followers are working to gain a permanent foothold in the Republican Party nationwide. One state at a time, Paul’s supporters are seating themselves at county committee meetings, and standing for election as state officers and convention delegates, to make sure their candidate’s libertarian vision is taken into account. The goal is a lasting voice for an army of outsiders that has long felt ignored and sees the nation headed toward ruin if things don’t change.

That is just fine with the Romney campaign, which would be happy to bring Paul’s constituency — perhaps the most intense and loyal in the country — into the fold.

Romney’s aides are “quietly in touch with Ron Paul,” according to a Republican adviser who is in contact with the Romney campaign and spoke on the condition of anonymity to discuss its internal thinking. The two campaigns have coordinated on minor things, the adviser said — even small details, such as staggering the timing of each candidate’s appearance on television the night of the New Hampshire primary for maximum effect.

See the link for the rest of this story. The Washington post is free but you may have to register. And its not nearly as offensively left wing as in past years.

I thought that Ron Paul would be relegated to some minor speech at 2AM at the Tampa Convention if Romney won the nomination and tried to avoid a Pat Buchanan effect like 1998. But Ron Paul is a lot smarter and isn't a mean, vindictive SOB like Pat and isn't likely to give a speech that would repell the masses, maybe just bewilder them. His alliance with Romney will give him influence on the overall philosophy of a Romney government, and is bringing his followers into the mainstream. For Romney the benefit is that he gets a much needed lift in his Conservative creds, which for now consists of nothing but hot air plus not being as bad as the Democrats.

This is also a very good indication that a Paul 3rd Party run is not likely.

I think this misses another element--both of them detest Newt Gingrich like a disease (as do I). I said long ago I could envision scenarios where I could pull a lever (or push a touchscreen) for Romney. One of those scenarios would be straight-up Mitt v. Newt contest. Conversely, there is NO scenario where I'd vote for Gingrich--none. Hence my signature below.

Also, although some people here don't seem to get this, it is possible to like and genuinely work with people whose politics are not yours. Contrary to what imbeciles like Michael Savage or Glenn Beck say, not everybody who disagrees with you is out to "destroy America". And it is often easier to open people's eyes to new ideas if you actually talk to them, as opposed to treating them like the Antichrist. There are limits to this, of course--nobody should be expected to work with the Pol Pots of the world (although the US supported his side against the Chinese).

Also this:

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/02/02/us/politics/paul-supporters-go-from-outsiders-to-vanguard-in-nevada-gop.html

Among These Republicans, Paul Supporters Go From Outsiders to Vanguard
By RICHARD A. OPPEL Jr.

HENDERSON, Nev. — Four years ago, an angry and dispirited educational database expert named Carl Bunce walked out of Nevada’s state Republican convention after party leaders shut down the proceedings rather than let Representative Ron Paul’s supporters nominate delegates for the national convention in St. Paul.

Mr. Bunce and a handful of other Paul backers made the trip to Minnesota, but he said that once there they were harassed by other Republicans who threatened to tear off their Paul buttons and even trailed them into bathrooms.

Today, Mr. Bunce, 35, is running Mr. Paul’s Nevada campaign from a strip mall in this Las Vegas suburb. But this time, he and other Paul supporters are in the vanguard of the Nevada Republican Party: After the ugly scene at the state convention, they decided to work with the party that they felt had treated them as pariahs. It took time, and some rivalries remain intense, but now Mr. Paul’s Nevada backers are part of the state Republican machinery.

“Why commit suicide, and why protest like crazy people?” Mr. Bunce remembers thinking after being slighted at the convention in St. Paul. “We decided to choose our battles, and we moved into the party. To get involved in an organization, you have to be part of it.”

A quarter of the Republican Party membership in Clark County — which includes Las Vegas — are now Paul backers, estimates Tim Williams, the county party’s political director. Four of Nevada’s 17 county Republican chairmen are also supporters, according to Mr. Bunce. And Robert List, the state’s Republican national committeeman and a former governor, says four or five members of the state party’s 12-member executive board are backing Mr. Paul.

The turnabout showcases Mr. Paul’s long-term goal of changing the party from within, and highlights how, whether he wins or loses in Saturday’s caucuses, Mr. Paul is likely to be a force to be reckoned with should there be a fractured nominating fight that drags on throughout the spring. Efforts to work within the party leadership have also been eagerly embraced by his son Senator Rand Paul of Kentucky, whom many Paul supporters see as the eventual heir to his legacy.

The Nevada caucuses now loom as a key test for Mr. Paul’s movement: After forgoing an expensive winner-take-all primary in Florida where they had no chance of success, his campaign is wagering all it has on Nevada and other coming votes in smaller-market caucus states like Colorado and Maine, part of a strategy to skim delegates in contests where they are awarded proportionally, based on the number of votes.

At stake for Mr. Paul in these caucuses and primaries is not the Republican nomination but whether his support structure will finally grow from what some establishment Republicans deem no more than a fringe effort driven by a handful of issues to a movement with the leverage to dictate policy and platform changes to the national Republican Party and its nominee.

“If nothing else, they are going to have to find a way to bring the Ron Paul people in, or risk losing to Barack Obama,” said James Smack, 44, a bank branch manager in rural Churchill County, Nev., who was elected vice chairman of the Nevada Republican Party last year with support from Paul backers and Tea Party supporters.

“The nominee marginalizes the Ron Paul people at his own peril,” said Mr. Smack, a Paul activist at the fateful state convention four years ago. “Placating them with some talking points isn’t going to work.”

Indeed, supporters’ hopes that Mr. Paul will be able to influence the wider Republican organization are a major reason that despite fourth-place finishes in the past two primaries, in South Carolina and Florida, his backers — and his fund-raising — remain robust.

Yet to some extent how much real leverage he can attain with the national party remains an open question and depends on how he performs in a series of contests to come, starting with Nevada, where he won 14 percent of the vote four years ago.

Expectations are even higher this year, but Mr. Paul faces a major hurdle: Mitt Romney’s strong base of support and organization here. In 2008, Mr. Romney won 51 percent of the vote, the same as in his home state, Massachusetts. Surveys of voters at the time showed that 9 out of 10 Mormons — about a quarter of Nevada caucusgoers — voted for Mr. Romney. While Mr. Romney seems to have had a ceiling of support in some other states, Republican officials here say the religious dynamic suggests he has a floor at about 25 percent.

Paul organizers hope to dent that through a heavy regimen of training for local organizers as well as relentless phone-banking. Some people who have indicated a preference for Mr. Paul say they have been called three times in recent days by campaign workers reminding them of the time and place of their local caucus.

“They are still seen as very strident and committed to their candidate,” said Mr. List, the former governor, who is now a lawyer in Las Vegas and has not endorsed any presidential candidate. But the relationships between Paul supporters and more establishment Republicans in the state are now “relatively harmonious,” he said, adding that is partly a reflection of Mr. Paul’s relaxed style. “They have increasingly been integrated within the party structure, and they are very active at the local levels and county levels and in our state organization.”

Mr. List doubts Mr. Paul can carry the state on Saturday but says he will walk away with delegates. “He’ll find friends wherever he goes,” Mr. List said. “He’s a bit of a phenomenon in this state.”

I think people here sometimes don't get Ron Paul. He is running to advance an ideology. Would he like to be President? Sure. But it is not very likely (but so much more unlikely as several others who were in the GOP field). It is not too different than what Goldwater did in 1964. Everybody knew that he had almost no chance of beating LBJ, especially with JFK fresh in the ground. But his campaign was really about changing the GOP from the party of Nelson Rockefeller (and George Romney, among others) to making Ronald Reagan possible. Paul is trying the same thing. He is trying to make the GOP able to seriously accommodate someone like Rand Paul, anybody else who says "Enough of the government, already!", on a national level. It is not just nepotism. Sometimes you just have to realize that you may not make it to the promised land, but you can make it possible for others to do so. So you do your best.

If all this is true I see a Romney/Rand Paul ticket coming our ways. I can live with that.

captain steinbrenner wrote:If all this is true I see a Romney/Rand Paul ticket coming our ways. I can live with that.

I am not sure if that is going to play out. I would expect to see a speaking role at the convention for both Paul's before I would expect to see Rand Paul on the actual ticket.

I see the 'cooperation' between the Romney and Paul campaigns as more of a 'mutually assured destruction' I think Romney knows that if he goes after Paul too hard, Paul's supporters would never vote for him. And he needs them in the general election. Heck, the party needs them. There are alot of independent voters under Paul. There is a lot of enthusiasm there. And Paul does represent the strong Libertarian side of the Party as a whole.

And Paul knows that if he goes after Romney too hard, it really doesnt matter how many delegates he gets, as he will certainly be barred from the convention like happened in 2008, and it will further harm the 'movement' he is trying to generate.

They both 'need' each other in one form or another.

Santorum and Newts supporters would be more easily swayed....especially Newts. Santorum's supporters maybe harder for Romney to pick up(if you believe the whole Mormon\Evangelical thing) But both could be picked up quite easily with the right VP Nominee. Whereas some of Paul's supporters might be dismayed to see Rand Paul effectively 'selling out' by accepting a VP slot, but would probably be happy to see him have a speaking slot and attempting to 'sway' the party towards their line.

IDK, maybe I am over analyzing it...but it is just the way I see it.

The rumor I'm hearing is that in exchange for Ron Paul's support, the eventual candidate will have to agree to tap Rand as veep.
I'm OK with that as it's the only way that I feel like I can support Romney, assuming he's the eventual nominee.
However, I'm reminded that when one lies down with dogs, one can expect to get fleas.

Otherwise I'm third party all the way. The stupid GOP has to learn that same old, same old isn't gonna play.

JoeC

I am against Romney THAT MUCH.. that even though I completely support Ron Paul... I cannot nor will not support a gxxdxx progressive even IF he has an "R" after his name or not... or if he has Rand Paul as his VP pick. Rand Paul does not change the fact that Romney is a f*%! progressive, and the only difference between him and Obama is the color of their skin, and the party they belong to. I despise Obama.. and I despise Romney.

I will NOT be voting for Romney, and I didnt in tuesday's primary. If he gets the nomination, I will vote third party. Yes, I know if enough people do this, Obama will win again... but as another member said on here the other day, I'd rather have only 4 more years of progressive-ism under obama, than a chance for 8 more years of progressive-ism under Romney. At least in 2016 if obama wins its all back to the drawing board.

Unlike some people that claim to be a republican or a conservative, I will not compromise my ideals for any reason.

WAKE UP PEOPLE!

FLEMTP wrote:I am against Romney THAT MUCH.. that even though I completely support Ron Paul... I cannot nor will not support a gxxdxx progressive even IF he has an "R" after his name or not... or if he has Rand Paul as his VP pick. Rand Paul does not change the fact that Romney is a f*%! progressive, and the only difference between him and Obama is the color of their skin, and the party they belong to. I despise Obama.. and I despise Romney.

I will NOT be voting for Romney, and I didnt in tuesday's primary. If he gets the nomination, I will vote third party. Yes, I know if enough people do this, Obama will win again... but as another member said on here the other day, I'd rather have only 4 more years of progressive-ism under obama, than a chance for 8 more years of progressive-ism under Romney. At least in 2016 if obama wins its all back to the drawing board.

Unlike some people that claim to be a republican or a conservative, I will not compromise my ideals for any reason.

WAKE UP PEOPLE!

That's nuts. Do you want a leftist majority on the Supreme Court? By all means, throw away your vote for your ideals. Your ideals won't mean much if Obama wins a second term and can do whatever he wants without fearing reelection

Romney's far from perfect but you can't always get everything you want when it comes to politics.

"You attract more Bees with Honey". This is always the safest and best way to continue a successful
Political Career. I'm glad to see these 2 gettin along.

FLEMTP wrote:...does not change the fact that Romney is a f*%! progressive, and the only difference between him and Obama is the color of their skin, and the party they belong to. I despise Obama.. and I despise Romney.

Are you serious? Truly serious that only skin color seperates Obama and Romney? You're welcome to despise Romney all you want but skin color is far from the only thing that seperates them and especially their ideology. You can argue Romney's perceived progressive stances all you want but I don't see where Communist/Marxist ideology forms any underpinnings to Romney's base ideology unlike Obama who is immersed in it and practices it.

Obama's father and mother were Communist and Marxist sympathizers. His brother Roy and cousin Odinga are hard line Islamists and Marxists. He grew up under the influence of Frank Davis, a committed Communist. His Illinois senate seat was given to him by the incumbent Alice Palmer, a die-hard Communist. His political career was launched by Bill Ayers and Bernardine Dorhn, more die-hard Communists. Obama endorsed VT US Senator Bernie Sanders, an openly Marxist socialist. And let's not forget his pastor, Jeremiah Wright, another Marxist.

Skin color is far from the only difference between Obama and Romney.

I've posted it before and I'll post it again.

I absolutely love Congressman Ron Paul. I just wish those voters who endorse Paul would also take after their candidates example of civility.

FLEMTP wrote:WAKE UP PEOPLE!

"Investment: People believing something simply because they have always accepted it as true or because they have invested a lot of time, money, or other resources in that particular belief" (p. 4).
Doing Empirical Political Research by James M. Carlson & Mark S. Hyde

I have had this suspicion for some time.
However, due to lack of hard evidence and out of respect for the several "Paul-o-philes" on the board, I kept it under my hat.

Now I can say it... Ron Paul has been playing you guys & gals like a harp from hell.
He knew going in that he didn't have a snowball's chance of getting the nomination, much less actually becoming president.
He also knew that, if by some fluke he did get elected, he would have less chance of moving his stated agenda through government then Obama has of being accepted into the Sons of Confederate Veterans.
He has nothing to lose!

I'm still voting Santorum in the primary, the one candidate who has yet to turn his back on conservatism.

That is all...

I would not mind seeing Paul as Sec Treas.


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