Florida Shooters Network

ok so i'm new to the fal/ cetme side of firearms i have assorted other rifles .so i have some questions what is the difference between a fal and a cetme? and a g3 what is better what are the pros and cons of each . i like the looks of the fal i've seen and think that i want one but i would like to know the difference between these rifles
thanks guys in advance for your patients for a newbe ( to these anyway)
Bill Reload556

Hey bill.
Cetme is the predecesser to the g3. Hk bought the design and added a few tweaks, but nothing much. The majority of parts are interchangeable between the two. G3 was a select fire rifle. HK91 is the same thing but is semi auto only.

Cetmes get a bid of a bad rap, because a huge portion of them were assembled poorly by Century Arms Inc (CAI). They had good days and bad, and some came out great while others came out like crap. The good thing is that with a little tweaking you can get 99.9% of them to run great. Plus, the cetmes can be had for around $600, while the g3/hk91's are upwards of $2k plus.
Then there's PTR91, which is a great clone of the g3/hk91. They actually used HK's tooling to build them, so they are great clones. Some say they're better than the real deal. They're assembled here with new parts, vs. slapped together with surplus parts kits from 20 year old rifles.
Check out http://www.militaryfirearm.com/Forum/fo ... 8a2e8&f=12 for some real good info on cetmes.

As far as fal goes, I really don't know a ton about them. All I know is they generally shoot very softly for a .308, have an adjustable gas regulator for variances in ammo and rifle condition/dirtyness.

My biggest recommendation is that if you're going to buy a cetme, shoot it first or buy it from someone you trust or a place that will let you return it if it won't run.

There are a few other options as far as G3 clones go:

Springfield Armory SAR-3/SAR-8: These were made in Greece by Hellenic Arms {they are licensed by H&K to make the G3 and other H&K products} or were assembled here from a parts kit on a DC Industries receiver. If you are interested in one of these, avoid the DCI receiver guns as they have cracking problems and do not accept the folding stock.

FMP G3S/XG3S/SLG-95 :These were made in Portugal by FMP or INDEP {also licensed by H&K} and are extremely rare. They were imported by various companies, but not in any significant quantity.

Special Weapons: Poor quality when compared to H&K, but serviceable, I would rather spend the money on a PTR-91 if I had to choose between a PTR and a SW.

Plus there's different receivers for the cetme...some cast aluminum, some cast stainless, but most stamped steel.
The stamped steel cetme's generally don't accept scope mounts very well due to the mounting grooves being more of a dent then an actual cut.

One of the big jokes about the SAR 8 is that it's the cheapest way to get an m1a from springfield when it breaks. Lifetime warranty, and no g3 type parts at Springfield = m1a for you. At the time, ammo was going cheap so it was easy to wear a gun out...

Here's my opinion. I've shot both, and the g3 left me cold. More recoil, worse ergonomics, (charging handle is almost impossible to actuate lying prone or with your shooting hand), brass is destroyed by fluted chamber, collapsible stock is about as comfortable as rebar. Gun is reliable, accurate enough, easy to scope, parts kits cheap these days, mags VERY cheap still. Lots of people like them, and you'll find a deal sometimes.

FAL. Better ergonomics, for me. As the gun gets dirtier, or if the ammo's weak, give it more gas to work the action. As simple as turning a knob a few clicks. PARA, (folding), setup costs about 3-500 more than fixed stock. Easy to maintain, parts still inexpensive. Mags are getting harder to find more expensive. VERY soft shooting for a 308 battle rifle. DSA makes what is considered the best US receiver, followed by DCI, Entreprise, then Century and ORF, (may require major work). You can also by guns built on Imbel, FN Belgian, or FMAP receivers.
There's two major flavors, Inch and Metric. Metric, (STG/G1, Israeli, Chilean Imbel, Brazilian Imbel, Argentine FMAPS, South African/Rhody R1s) is more common, and the mags are still cheap, around 10-20 dollars for usable mags. Inch, used by the commonwealth countries, NZ, AUS, UK, etc, has many parts interchangeable with metric. Mags are 20-30 still, as less were imported. To cloud the issue, Century built "mixmaster" guns with inch uppers and metric lowers, or vice versa.
Find someone local with either, shoot them, and decide. I shot a Cetme and didn't love it. Glad it didn't cost me $4-900 to make that decision.

Cetme's and G3/hk91 types SHOULD be a pretty soft shooter. The problem that turns a lot of people off is that the internal buffer is worn out, or the headspace is off, both of which will make the rifle recoil hard. Ive shot some that were awful to shoot, and then there's mine that's as light of a recoil as my mini 14.

ok so we did our christmas last night and what to my wondering eyes did i see but a rifle case under the tree( a very heavy rifle case) so i open it up and there is a FAL L1A1 built on a imbel receiver with wood furniture and a muzzel break . so i've had a grin on my face since last nite so now i've got more questions
1 how d i tell if its inch or metric?
2 best place to get acc IE mags a bipod
3 what weight bulletts do it eat if it matters?
4 what other acc have you guys found to be usefull
thanks thats it for now
Bill

Post up a photo and we'll let you know what you've got. As far as inch/metric take a look in the magwell, and if it's got a moon shaped cutout in the front by the bbl, it's cut for metric mags. If it's a square cutout, it's cut for inch mags. The sight ears by the gas block at the front of the hand guards should be open or have a hole if it's an inch bbl.

gunthings.com, brad will steer you right. Bipods are not necessary, and inch variants that weren't heavy bbl didn't use them. 140-165 grn bullets are the norm.

lets see if this works

Imbel receivered (metric most likely) L1A1 century build. Crappy muzzle brake, have that removed, the bbl crowned and threaded for a inch flash suppressor. Check it for compliance parts, look at the Hammer, trigger, sear in the lower for C marks, if it's Century it may fire when the rifle is handled roughly. The furniture is imported as is the receiver, so you've probably got a non-compliant (922r) rifle.

US parts most likely gas piston, hammer, trigger, sear, muzzle brake. Still need a few more.

James

If you have not already found them you need to know about:
http://www.falfiles.com/index.php
everything FAL.

They also have a pretty brisk marketplace where you might find a deal on some mags if your patiant.

Good looking rifle. I went the PTR91 route, but would have purchased a FAL if I had found one cheap enough at the time. As others have mentioned the FAL is incredibly ergonomic, it goes to the shoulder well. There are still plenty of folks like DSA building compliance parts so don't sweat it.....just get it taken care of. I suspect you will be very pleased with that rifle.

mohshard wrote:Imbel receivered (metric most likely) L1A1 century build. Crappy muzzle brake, have that removed, the bbl crowned and threaded for a inch flash suppressor. Check it for compliance parts, look at the Hammer, trigger, sear in the lower for C marks, if it's Century it may fire when the rifle is handled roughly. The furniture is imported as is the receiver, so you've probably got a non-compliant (922r) rifle.

US parts most likely gas piston, hammer, trigger, sear, muzzle brake. Still need a few more.

James

Hi James, have a good Christmas?

The only thing about the reciver is that you can't use Inch style magizines. Is that a problem? Not really, Metric mags are much easier to find.

Some things that are availible to make your rifle 922r compliant are (but not limited to) (US made): Floor plate and followers for both Inch and Metric mags, Fire control group (hammer/trigger/sear), charging handle (operating rod), gas piston, muzzle devices.

While Inch H/T/S are available, they are not as common as Metric parts.

You can also swap out your furniture (that would be a shame) for US made stuff.

Overall, that looks like a nice rifle.

ok so as i sit here waiting on my ammo shippment going completely nuts ( cause i'm not going to the range with 10 round for the new rifle) can someone explain the gas knob on the front of the rifle? where should it be set at ? how do it work? as i understand it i can turn the knob to lighten the recoil( fetl recoil) or for underpowered rounds what does that do to the action of the bolt ? will it cause failure to feeds? or eject? any hepl would be great

Gas Regulator.

Join www.falfiles.com, search gas setting or gas regulator, and all will be revealed to you.

Howdy Ken. Doing well, just busy as hell. Talk to you soon, let me know if Henry's opens up and I'll head down that way with a shoot. Finishing a build next weekend.

James

done thanks

The lower the number ie. 1 . greater recoil , this gas is not bled off . The higher the number more gas is bled off causing less recoil. You will find you can use this setting to help some ammo (usually lower priced stuff ) eject further and better. This is one of the many reasons FALs are used thruout the world. I shot my STG 58 this am alot of fun