Florida Shooters Network

http://www.miamiherald.com/2012/01/16/2 ... itals.html

Should guns be banned in hospitals?

By John Dorschner The Miami Herald

The South Florida hospital association is once again asking the Legislature to ban guns in hospitals, but the gun lobby is adamantly opposed and legislators are showing little interest.

By John Dorschner

jdorschner@MiamiHerald.com


In Florida, it’s against the law to carry a gun into a school, an athletic event, a jail, a police station or a local government meeting. Not so with hospitals, where it remains perfectly legal to pack heat.

For years, Linda Quick of the South Florida Hospital and Healthcare Association has wanted to change that. Just before each session of the Legislature, when her group publishes its agenda, it includes a talking point: “Add ‘licensed hospitals and nursing homes’ to the Safety Zone provisions of the Concealed Weapons Law.”

The agenda item is once again on the association’s list as the 2012 legislative session gets under way. “It’s just common sense,” says Quick. “You don’t want guns in schools. Why on earth would you want them in hospitals?”

Fat chance, says Marion Hammer, the Tallahassee lobbyist for the National Rifle Association who has fought successfully for years against adding hospitals to the list. “NRA would oppose a bill that panders to the anti-gun political agenda of South Florida organizations,’’ she wrote in an email to The Herald.

Hammer and Quick say they know of no bill on the subject filed for this legislative session. In recent sessions, the Legislature’s trend has been decidedly pro-gun. Last year, all the talk about guns and healthcare involved an NRA-backed bill that said doctors should refrain from asking patients whether they had firearms unless the doctors had a compelling reason.

The Legislature passed the bill. Gov. Rick Scott signed it. Family physicians and pediatricians led the legal charge against it — maintaining they had a constitutional right to ask and a need to know whether children were in a safe household that either had no guns or the guns were safely locked away. A federal judge has blocked enforcement of the law until she can determine whether it violates doctors’ free speech rights.

Several years ago, when a no-gun-in-hospitals bill received a hearing, some doctors in North Florida objected: They wanted to be armed in hospitals for their own safety. “Doctors, nurses and medical personnel ... are licensed to carry and ... should not have their constitutional rights denied because they have chosen to work in the field of medicine,” says Hammer. “For almost 25 years, license holders have been able to carry firearms in hospitals and there have essentially been no problems.”

Quick acknowledges that shootings in hospitals are not frequent, but they do occur, such as a murder-suicide in Weston at the Cleveland Clinic Hospital in 2007 and a pregnant pharmacy manager shot and killed at the Shands Jacksonville Hospital in 2006.

Hospitals could put up signs saying guns are not permitted on the premises, but Quick says a person with a state-issued concealed weapons permit could enter with a gun and not be arrested.

Hammer says no law is needed because carrying a concealed weapon without a permit is already a felony. “Persons who have been licensed by the state to carry concealed weapon are not now nor have they ever been a problem.”

Quick says many leaders of her hospital association support gun rights and some own guns themselves. “My membership is as diverse as the rest of the population. The only question we’re asking is if they belong in hospitals.”

Even with the law, an angry person might burst into a hospital with guns blazing. But a law could at least serve as a deterrent, she says. “We really consider it a glitch bill” — fixing a minor error in a law.If lawmakers wanted to keep guns out of schools, sporting events and government meetings, Quick reasons, it was probably just oversight that they didn’t include hospitals: “Hospitals are highly charged emotionally stressful environments. One might argue that’s even more so in hospitals than in government offices.”

She thought fixing a glitch might have passed without raising much of a fuss. “Little did I know.”

Read more here: http://www.miamiherald.com/2012/01/16/2 ... rylink=cpy

what happens if you get taken to the hospital, say unconscious and you have your CW on you ??

What sort of penalty do they propose that would be a "deterrent" as in the next to last paragraph by the silly fool? It seems to me that going anywhere with "guns blazing" as in the same paragraph, quoting the same silly fool would result in greater penalties than any I have seen in 790. BTW, what ever happened to 10-20-life? The blazing part, combined with carrying without a permit sounds like a crime which probably should trigger 10-20-life.

They might mean well and all that, but considering that hospitals, and the medical profession in general, kill more people every year than gun owners, maybe they need a reminder of the real facts.

What FORCE FIELD makes these gun free places so safe that only the authorities can bring in weapons?
And if they are such safe places shouldn't the authorities be checking their weapons, too?

Several hospitals in the Orlando area have signs saying firearms not allowed along with metal detectors.

Lakeland Regional has no signs or metal detectors - yet.

Unless I am staying over night and getting pumped full of morphine why wouldn't I want to carry my firearm in to a hospital?

Better than it sitting in the car.

I spent the weekend in the hospital and those shitheads are damned lucky I didn't have my pistol with me!

Rentprop1 wrote:what happens if you get taken to the hospital, say unconscious and you have your CW on you ??

I'd imagine that the EMTs would find it before you're transported and have a LEO secure it.

Miz flcracker has had patients that came into the ER NOT unconscious and carrying. There's always a cop on duty, and if need be they'll secure it. If you're lucky and discharged within a couple hours you might get it back from him without it being impounded, depending on his impression of you. But if you stay past the end of his shift it will go to the impound locker and you'll have to retrieve it later.

http://www.floridafirearmslaw.com/mm5/m ... e_Code=FFL

Question #08: What's the deal with the new law about weapons on the grounds on/around a hospital or mental health facility?

Answer 08:

CAN YOU CARRY AT A HOSPITAL?
© 2006 by Jon H. Gutmacher

Florida Statute § 394.458 states “except as authorized by law” it is a third degree felony (yeah – felony!) for any person to bring, carry, possess, or transport a “firearm or other dangerous weapon” upon the grounds of any “hospital (or mental health facility) providing mental health services”. Here’s the actual wording: (1) (a) Except as authorized by law or as specifically authorized by the person in charge of each hospital providing mental health services under this part, it is unlawful to introduce into or upon the grounds of such hospital, or to take or attempt to take or send therefrom, any of the following articles, which are hereby declared to be contraband for the purposes of this section:

Any intoxicating beverage or beverage . . . .
Any controlled substance as defined in chapter 893; or
Any firearms or deadly weapon”.
I just handled an arrest involving this statute. I raised the defense that the phrase “except as authorized by law” meant just that – and that securely encased weapons in vehicles on hospital grounds were therefore legal, pursuant to Florida Statute 790.25, and that persons having a Concealed Weapons Permit were also authorized because Florida Statute 790.06(12) lists all the places you can’t carry pursuant to your permit – and a hospital or mental health facility isn’t one of them. Thus you’re obviously “authorized by law”.

Now, the State Attorney agreed with me in the case I was handling – and dropped the prosecution. However, there is no binding appellate decision on this issue, and therefore, no guarantee you couldn’t get arrested, and become the next “test case”. Just because I’m sure my interpretation is correct doesn’t mean that the rest of the world will. Likewise, the “law according to Gutmacher” isn’t quite the same thing as an Opinion by an appellate court which is binding across the State. So -- maybe some caution isn’t such a bad idea?

I therefore would suggest that carrying inside a hospital or mental health facility pursuant to your CWP should be reserved for very special instances. Likewise, if any one knows you’re carrying, and tells the police or a security guard - I would suggest you be more than accommodating in offering to leave immediately if they feel you’re illegal, or just don’t want you there. Remember -- even if my interpretation is correct -- they still have the right to tell you to leave under trespass laws, no matter what the actual law is. So just get the heck out while you have the chance. If you get into any type of situation where you’re actually taken into custody, politely suggest to the officers that because you have a CWP, you’re not acting illegally. They’ll probably ignore you – but who knows? Can’t hurt!

Anyway, that’s my spin on this statute. Keep safe.

Onree wrote:Several hospitals in the Orlando area have signs saying firearms not allowed along with metal detectors.

Lakeland Regional has no signs or metal detectors - yet.

Yep...the kids building at Winnie Palmer is one. I thought it was weird that the babies portion didn't have detectors after I saw that the childrens building did...

Onebad: the information you posted is pertaining to mental health services. It states that a hospital that provides mental health services or a mental health hospital. Very few hospitals provide mental health services, in most counties there is only 1 or 2 psych recieving facilities. So what this means is you are ok based on the quoted statue as long as you stay away from psych hospitals and psych facilities with your gun.

poloboy821 wrote:Onebad: the information you posted is pertaining to mental health services. It states that a hospital that provides mental health services or a mental health hospital. Very few hospitals provide mental health services, in most counties there is only 1 or 2 psych recieving facilities. So what this means is you are ok based on the quoted statue as long as you stay away from psych hospitals and psych facilities with your gun.

don't most hospitals have at least some form of psych facility?

onebadscrambler wrote:http://www.floridafirearmslaw.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?Screen=Legal-Frequently-Asked-Questions&Store_Code=FFL

Question #08: What's the deal with the new law about weapons on the grounds on/around a hospital or mental health facility?
Answer 08:

CAN YOU CARRY AT A HOSPITAL?
© 2006 by Jon H. Gutmacher

Please read, word for word, the information provided. The question was asked of basically the leading atty on this subject and was provided as reference to the OP.

TC6969 wrote:I spent the weekend in the hospital and those shitheads are damned lucky I didn't have my pistol with me!

Don't say stuff like that, even joking. It makes their point and will have no problems quoting this website for proof. We've got to be careful about what we say here. it is an open platform.

I'm going to ask scurity when I go to work today to find out. I asked the same question last week to one of the people I work with. They had no idea.

what scares me is the open invitation to robbers on every enterence that says we are a weapons free facility.

If anyone has been to Bayfront hospital in St.Pete they would understand the need to carry a gun, particularly to the emergency room at night.

ipscscott wrote:

poloboy821 wrote:Onebad: the information you posted is pertaining to mental health services. It states that a hospital that provides mental health services or a mental health hospital. Very few hospitals provide mental health services, in most counties there is only 1 or 2 psych recieving facilities. So what this means is you are ok based on the quoted statue as long as you stay away from psych hospitals and psych facilities with your gun.

don't most hospitals have at least some form of psych facility?

Some, not most AFAIK. In Tampa the only two that I am aware of is St. Josephs on MLK and Tampa General. They are only psych wards and not full psych facilities. Other hospitals in the area do not have psych wards or facilities.

ipscscott wrote:

poloboy821 wrote:Onebad: the information you posted is pertaining to mental health services. It states that a hospital that provides mental health services or a mental health hospital. Very few hospitals provide mental health services, in most counties there is only 1 or 2 psych recieving facilities. So what this means is you are ok based on the quoted statue as long as you stay away from psych hospitals and psych facilities with your gun.

don't most hospitals have at least some form of psych facility?

No, all hospitals muct accept a pt but they do not all have the staff required to provide primary psych services. Think of it like taking a car to tires plus, sure they can do basic things like tires and oil changes but for specialty work they will reffer you to the proper dealer and get you the specific help you need. When i have a pt that is a straight psych transport i will take them to manatee memorial since that is the psych hospital in this county. Regardless of the closest er they will go there since what they need is psych consult not medical attention.

From the way i read gutmachers reply he is qouting the statue for mental health services which it would make sense to keep weapons out of psych facilities as the last thing you want is a nut job getting ahold of a weapon of any kind.

Btw there are stand alone psych facilities also not just hospitals with psych care.

Ok so I talked to security at work. They will detain it until you discharge. They would keep it in a package labeled to you and your account, locked in a safe. Once discharged they would give it back, kinda like walmart with the whole"walk to the front door" deal.

Thing is, they don't know u, or your condition. You could be suicidal, on drugs, ext. Triage, nurses, doctors are all there to care for you and get u better, and you being unarmed is best until they know your diagnosis.