SA Gun Owner to Us

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SA Gun Owner to Us

Postby NonConformist » Mon Feb 06, 2012 5:23 pm

Letter From A South African Gun Owner
June 2001

by Pierre van der Walt
Submitted by a friend of his
Also published in OffGuard Magazine

http://www.keepandbeararms.com/informat ... sp?ID=2184

Dear American Hunter,

My name is Pierre van der Walt; my homeland is South Africa.

I am from Afrikaner stock. Since 1985 when the gun grabbing started in our country, I have been intimately involved in the pro gun cause. I have served and still serve on many of the associations leading our struggle. In the past I have practiced law, and served in our national defense force in Armored Infantry and Military Intelligence Corp, eventually attaining the rank of captain and Unit S-1.

I come to you today at the request of my dear friend Bradley Rolston, an excellent Professional Hunter and pro gunner to the core. Last year Bradley hunted with one of your Washington Arms Collector members, Mack Wilcox, and they became friends, as always happens with people meeting Bradley.

As sportsmen and hunters, Bradley and Mack had much in common, foremost, their concern over the continuing encroachment of our right to bear arms which extends into the whole issue of all civil rights. Mack’s wife suggested that a letter from the South African gun owners to the gun owners of America might be appropriate at this time. I trust you are aware the weekend of July 7th, 2001 will kick off the UN’s meeting on small arms. It is their desire to disarm citizens worldwide! I know that as I personally attended their West African meetings in Accra, Ghana, as an observer.

I would like to tell you some of what took place in our country and hope that you will recognize on a personal level the danger that threatens you and your countrymen, and the heartbreak that lies ahead, if you fail to resist.

When Africa was truly dark, the law of the jungle naturally prevailed. From a socio-political perspective it mostly meant that the king with the largest army held life and death in his palms. Later the Arabs came with their guns.

In 1652, the first white colonials permanently settled the southernmost tip of Africa. They came with their guns and their traditional right to keep and bear them, much as it was in your country.

One of the first things the settlers did to ensure domination and supremacy was to impose a ban on the possession of firearms by indigenous peoples (the blacks). It is not coincidental that this ban resulted in the colonial subjugation of the indigenous peoples until the twentieth century. Indigenous peoples then began armed revolts and national liberation followed. Those who had been suppressed for centuries used firearms to ensure that the political will of the masses prevailed in the absence of democracy. Democracy was instilled through the barrel of the gun. Apartheid came to a formal end in 1994.

As a result of the so-called ‘armed struggle’, amongst other things, South Africa experienced its second national liberation. The liberation was not the sole result of the armed struggle, as the fight for freedom had been fought on many fronts, but it was crucial. The threats of democratic will being enforced violently caused the elite to bow to democracy. It is an irresistible force that you as Americans must never loose sight of as protectorate of the world’s freedom. You are the last front of the ‘armed struggle’ – the struggle not for national liberation, but for the preservation of personal freedom.

National liberation has rarely equated in advances of personal freedom. For once look outside America to evaluate my words. THEN OPEN YOUR EYES TO YOUR OWN PREDICAMENT!

I want you to think for a moment. As the twentieth century aged, the political cry for increased freedoms became the rallying cry for political correctness and liberty. The plight and rights of the individual were seemingly put on the forefront. The so-called flag bearers of these rights and liberties screamed and shouted ‘"LIBERATION" and it only seemed reasonable to increasingly recognize the stature of the rights of the individual.

IN AMERICA, you are that individual.

In truth, have your rights increased or decreased as a result of this alleged increased liberation? Be frank, do you feel less restricted or not? Are you as private as you used to be? Did you believe an armed BATF invasion into your home possible 25 years ago? Do you believe it possible today?

Despite the many wars, some victorious and some not, we in South Africa had the right to keep and bear arms, in the absence of a constitution until 1994. That right has constantly been eroded by our colonial regimes with the sole purpose of clinging to power. Fortunately we experienced the joy of national liberation in 1994. . .we were free at last! OR SO WE THOUGHT!

A COUNTRY’S CONSTITUTION AND ITS CIVIL RIGHTS ARE JUST AS STRONG AS THE PEOPLE’S ABILITY TO RESIST THE GOVERNMENT RAPING THAT CONSTITUTION. WE GUN OWNERS FORM 5% OF THE SA POPULATION. WE LOST, BUT OUR FELLOW CITIZENS DO NOT EVEN REALIZE THAT THEY HAVE LOST THE CORNERSTONES OF THEIR RIGHT TO PROPERTY, THE PRESUMPTION OF INNOCENCE AND THE BASIS FOR THE RIGHT TO LIFE IN THE PROCESS.

In a country:

Where we have fewer policemen per capita than most countries, more policemen per capita are killed annually than virtually anywhere in the world.

Where more than 500 of the most brutal violent attacks conceivable have been launched against farmers.

Where in excess of 800 farmers have been killed since national liberation.

Where the police are in the news on a daily basis for their role and participation in crime.

Where less than 0.25% of all crimes are committed by owners of registered firearms.

Where the ruling political party has failed and/or refused to surrender the firearms it brought into the country for the armed struggle and which firearms are now illegally in the hands of party faithful. These party faithful are not prosecuted for illegal possession and the ANC can not account for the firearms it’s supporters have but if a lawful firearm owner has 1 grain of powder in excess of the 1-lb limit he can spend a life in jail. I SAID: A LIFE IN JAIL!

Where incredible numbers of firearms are lost by the government’s security forces, the government thought it liberating and in the interest of personal freedom to clamp down on lawful firearm ownership but the party faithful are happily cruising on – unaffected.
The message I am bringing you is that your civil rights are being eroded, rather than expanded. All the while propaganda claims the contrary. If that does not wake you up to straighten your back and make a stand while you have some leverage, you deserve the consequences. You cannot make a stand once you hang on with only your fingernails. Stand together now, or hang together later! Freedom lost is seldom ever reclaimed. The world is watching you, America. You are the hope and inspiration of every freedom loving man, woman and child in this world. Are you worthy of the sacrifices of those that went before you? Are you willing to do as much for those who will follow? Are you truly brave enough to remain free? Then why are you not as free as you used to be?

WHAT HAVE YOU AS AN INDIVIDUAL DONE TO SAFEGUARD AMERICA’S FREEDOM?

Those of us in South Africa, Australia, England, Canada and many other countries around the world offer to you our friendship, prayers and encouragement. STAND FAST! BEHAVE LIKE YOUR FOUNDING FATHERS. BEHAVE LIKE A TRUE AMERICAN!

GOD BLESS

Pierre van der Walt
Last edited by NonConformist on Tue Feb 07, 2012 2:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.
"Men trained in arms from their infancy, and animated by their love of liberty, will afford neither a cheap or easy conquest." -From the Declaration of the Continental Congress, July 1775.
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Re: SA Gun Owner to Us

Postby Tom Fernandez » Tue Feb 07, 2012 8:36 am

Though I agree w/ 95% of Mr. van der Walt's argument, most of it falls apart when you know the real Apartheid history of South Africa and who these "elite" were. Mr. van der Walt is a white man and the 5% South Africans that were armed were *ahem* the whites which make up the smallest portion of the country (5%). And for hundreds of years, until 1994, the whites (and the Apartheid government starting in 1948) in South Africa have been guilty of some of the greatest crimes against humanity (but we don't discuss this because the Apartheid was a "democratically elected" government, by the 5%).

It appears that the true South African natives are and have been exacting revenge for the hundreds of armed repression by the Apartheid government. So with that background knowledge, one starts to question Mr. van der Walt's argument. His principles are correct, but the Apartheid background undermines his argument. Can you think of another time in another place in the world where similar things have taken place?

Let's just name one: the American Revolution.

Nonetheless, I will humor Mr. van der Walt and answer his questions from 2001:

Pierre van der Walt wrote:In truth, have your rights increased or decreased as a result of this alleged increased liberation?


With the introduction of Heller and McDonald, the concept of confiscation has been taken off of the table (for now at least). I can now carry my firearms into National Public parks and CWP permits across the nation are being issued for longer terms. Furthermore, more and more states are adopting similar CWP laws into their own states and states that were once very restrictive are slowly bowing to 2A rights. So in answer to the question, my rights have increased but not because of the "liberation" movement you're citing Mr. van der Walt.

Pierre van der Walt wrote:Be frank, do you feel less restricted or not?


I do not feel restricted.

Pierre van der Walt wrote:Are you as private as you used to be?


No I am not as private as I used to be. This part is a problem.

Pierre van der Walt wrote:Did you believe an armed BATF invasion into your home possible 25 years ago? Do you believe it possible today?


25 years ago? Yes. Possible today? No.

A sign issued by the Apartheid government (95% of the population is black)
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Re: SA Gun Owner to Us

Postby MikeFL86 » Tue Feb 07, 2012 12:20 pm

The "indigenous" people that started and took part in the "liberation" of South Africa were Soviet, communist-backed terrorists whose ancestors were mainly NOT from South Africa but moved there when the Boers began to civilize it.

Is racial discrimination wrong? Yes.

But anyone interested in history should know that the ANC and Nelson Mandela were vicious people, not peaceful civil rights activists as so often portrayed in the media and entertainment.

South Africa was betrayed by the West, who used them when it suited them and condemned them when it became chique to do so.

The gentleman who wrote this letter, if it's genuine, should save his money and move to America at his soonest convenience. He is living in an incredibly dangerous place where civilization is on its way out. It's difficult to live in peace and harmony in a nation with a hostile government made up of people that likely resent and hate you and where corruption runs so deep.

I recommend that all of you watch Law and Disorder in Johannesburg for a glimpse inside of the corpse of South Africa. That city makes the worst parts of Detroit look like a kindergarten playground.
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Re: SA Gun Owner to Us

Postby Legal Alien » Tue Feb 07, 2012 1:53 pm

Tom Fernandez wrote: . . . .It appears that the true South African natives are and have been exacting revenge for the hundreds of armed repression by the Apartheid government. So with that background knowledge, . . . . . .


What an uninformed, biased, bigoted, insensitive statement!!! . . . . why don't you tell us how you Really feel? . . . . I mean really????

I am not going to justify the apartheid regime. There is not much good that came out of it. At best, it was a "benevolent dictatorship" where a 10-12% minorty white goverment (not 5%) made all decisions on behalf of the rest (80%, not 95%) of the "natives".
I am not going to claim that I did not benefit from the apartheid system. I was born into it, lived with it for 47 yrs with my white skin and yes, I did benefit from it.
However, in contrast to other African continent nations, ie Ethiopia, Somalia, Congo, Kenya . . . and others, South Africa, under pre-1994 apartheid government was the MOST PEACEFULL and most prosperous developing country in Africa, with the lowest death rate per capita on the continent. Go suck on that mr Fernandez. It was a developing nation with thriving Industry and agricultural product exports (ah yes, we did it on the backs of black slave labour I guess)

Post apartheid, Communist ANC governed South Africa has now turned it into the most dangerous country in the world - above Mozambique. Gross HUMAN RIGHTS violations, with in excess of 12,000 white South Africans murdered in both urban and rural areas and close to 4,000 white Afrikaner farmers and their families slaughtered on their farms, between 2001 and 2011, now goes unreported in MSM koolaid sucking USA. How is that for the 'true SOuth African natives exacting revenge"?
How about getting enraged about this current level of HUMAN RIGHTS ABUSE mr Fernandez?

Can you think of another time in another place in the world where similar things have taken place?


Hmmmmmmm . . . . how about your own forefathers in the good ole USofA and their treatment of "true American natives"? . . FRIGIN HYPOCRITES!!!!!" Talk about wholesale HUMAN RIGHTS VIOLATIONS!!!! You are the people who committed wholesale slaughter and decimation of the Native American Indians, then rounded up the small bands of survivors and banished them to isolated desert wastelands, where they now languish in a drunken stupor and are paraded from time to time in colorful feathered headbands to passing tourists.

Would you be so blase if these "true American natives' decided to 'exact revenge' for 100's of years of HUMAN RIGHTS VIOLATIONS and commenced wholesale slaughter of white Americans.

And how about the Mexican land you occupied and stole from Mexico (in retribution)? Would you be so blase if these "true Mexican Natives" decided to "exact revenge' and commenced wholesale slaughter of white Americans occupying their Native Aztlan?

I guess not . . . .to you it would be justified 'revenge' and righting historic wrongs I guess.

My own youg brother was shot and left for dead at the side of the road by 'true native Africans' exacting revenge. Thank God it was only a flesh wound and he survived, picked up and taken to a hospital by other 'true native Africans" nonetheless.
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Re: SA Gun Owner to Us

Postby MikeFL86 » Tue Feb 07, 2012 2:09 pm

Thank you so much for the informative posts and the links you provided, Legal Alien.
Liberty lies in the hearts of men and women. When it dies there, no constitution, no law, no court can save it. — JUSTICE LEARNED HAND

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Re: SA Gun Owner to Us

Postby NonConformist » Tue Feb 07, 2012 2:20 pm

Id argue SA, Rhodesia etc were better off under Apartheid or colonial Western Governments. I dont agree w/ apartheid but the facts support it being a better way as opposed to what has become of those areas now

Once Rhodesia fed 75% of Africa, after minority Liberation, they are starving and cant even feed 75% of their own country

I SA, the farms were mostly taken from whites, and they became barren, now they are giving the famrd back to those they took them from for the food they need.

The evidence is damning that they are better now than they were, its quite the opposite, that said crimes against whites and crime in general have exploded as most are now disarmed

research the data, its staggering
"Men trained in arms from their infancy, and animated by their love of liberty, will afford neither a cheap or easy conquest." -From the Declaration of the Continental Congress, July 1775.
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Re: SA Gun Owner to Us

Postby Legal Alien » Tue Feb 07, 2012 2:43 pm

MikeFL86 wrote:Thank you so much for the informative posts and the links you provided, Legal Alien.


Your'e welcome and thank you for your support.
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Re: SA Gun Owner to Us

Postby Orlando Paulitician » Tue Feb 07, 2012 3:08 pm

Pierre van der Walt wrote:Did you believe an armed BATF invasion into your home possible 25 years ago? Do you believe it possible today?


TF: "25 years ago? Yes. Possible today? No."

perhaps not by the ATF, or for guns, but it would seem today DEA/SWAT raids are on the rise, and their mistakes of either getting addresses wrong, not investigating enough before raiding, or confusing one type of activity (gambling) as another (drug trade), they are liable to knock down the doors of any of our homes.

and once again, more often than not, its the Whites here, who when effect, complain and possibly change policies of their respective departments, while disenfranchised, impoverish blacks have no outlet for reforming LE policies.

so, SA's history notwithstanding, we should also look at our own racist and human-rights-violating policies of the Drug War.
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Re: SA Gun Owner to Us

Postby Big_Mike » Tue Feb 07, 2012 3:14 pm

Tom Fernandez wrote:
Let's just name one: the American Revolution.


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Re: SA Gun Owner to Us

Postby Tom Fernandez » Tue Feb 07, 2012 5:06 pm

Legal Alien wrote:
Tom Fernandez wrote: . . . .It appears that the true South African natives are and have been exacting revenge for the hundreds of armed repression by the Apartheid government. So with that background knowledge, . . . . . .


What an uninformed, biased, bigoted, insensitive statement!!!


Uninformed? I am willing to cede to you on the issue as you are from there. Biased? Hardly. But a bigot I am not.

Legal Alien wrote:I am not going to justify the apartheid regime. There is not much good that came out of it. At best, it was a "benevolent dictatorship"...

However, in contrast to other African continent nations, ie Ethiopia, Somalia, Congo, Kenya . . . Go suck on that Mr. Fernandez.

It was a developing nation with thriving Industry and agricultural product exports (ah yes, we did it on the backs of black slave labour I guess)


A shiny piece of shit, is still a piece of shit (I'm not calling South Africa a piece of shit, it's an analogy, so calm the F down before you snap at this statement). In other words, a benevolent dictatorship is still a dictatorship.

Frankly, I'm absolutely appalled by some of the comments by some of you Ron Paul supporters. If you don't have an attention span long enough to read the comments by either Nonconformist, Legal Alien, or myself, then read this part:

I hear many a Ron Paul supporters argue that the reason the world is angry at us is because we stick our noses in their business, rightly so. Paul argues that 9/11 would have never happened had we not been in the Middle East meddling in their affairs to begin with. Ok, granted. If you subscribe to this principle, the principle that 9/11 and other similar terrorist attacks are just a reaction to the cause of American Infringement, how on earth can you gasp at the thought that a suppressed people in South Africa would be absolutely pissed at a white majority "kindly telling them what to do" at the point of a rifle.

If you believe that terrorist actions are simply responses to an overreaching Western Influence, then you must also believe the black majority actions to remove firearms (though I disagree w/ the actions) are only a response to a "benevolent dictactorship." On that note, I don't care if my cage has a soft pillow, I'm given steak and potatoes every night to eat, and I get to watch TV and use the internet whenever I want. I'm still in a GD cage! Pray I don't get out of it.

Disclaimer: in no way do I advocate the disarming of anyone, just saying that the Apartheid made their bed, now they have to sleep in it.
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Re: SA Gun Owner to Us

Postby Legal Alien » Tue Feb 07, 2012 5:35 pm

just saying that the Apartheid made their bed, now they have to sleep in it.


So, if your 'true native Americans' decided to take up arms and initiate a wholesale slaughter of white US ranchers surrounding their reservations, that will be your same reaction as well I assume,

IF your 'true Mexican American' decided they wanted to reclaim their Aztlan, and initiated wholesale slaughter of white Americans in the disputed region, that will be your same reaction as weill I assume.

You made your bed, now you have to sleep in it. =:vio

As to the 'bigot' aspersions I threw your way, how about the bigoted USA that slaughtered a whole nation based on their ethnic origin and then banished the survivors to eternal drunken purgatory - and then have the gall to cry HUMAN RIGHTS VIOLATIONS against another nation. Bigots and Hypocrites. I dont see or hear you fighting for the rights of your Native AMericans.


And just an FYI - I am not a Ron Paul supporter by any stretch of the imagination. Not sure what got you to that conclusion.

I am also not a Romney koolaid drinker, nor a Ginchrich groupie either. I am very much an Independent at this time.
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Re: SA Gun Owner to Us

Postby Legal Alien » Tue Feb 07, 2012 6:01 pm

I hear many a Ron Paul supporters argue that the reason the world is angry at us is because we stick our noses in their business, rightly so.


As somebody that has seen the USA from the outside looking in, yes, that is exactly the reason why the rest of the world is angry at the BIG BULLY nation.

The same BIG BULLY nation whose CIA Spooks gave full support to RSA troops, in support of Angola FNLA resistance, when they ventured into Angola in an attempt to oust Cuban Communist troops, but when the crunch came and the SA troops were encamped on the outskirts of the Angola capitol Luanda, ready to take control, then the BIG BULLY nation CIA spooks tucked tail and ran away, leaving the SA troops to face international wrath (with support from the USA) for invading 'poor Angola'. Yep, your BIG BULLY nation of bigots and hypocrites.

It is all perceptions you see. Depends on from which side of the window you are viewing the scene. Inside looking out, vs outside looking in. Where do you see most of the warts exposed?
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Re: SA Gun Owner to Us

Postby Tom Fernandez » Tue Feb 07, 2012 6:37 pm

Drop your defensive guard friend. I said nothing against you personally nor do I intend to. Also, my Ron Paul statement was not directed towards you.

I'm reading your point of view; just drop the defensive offense. My responses are not personal so please stop perceiving them as such. [smilie=cheers1.gif]
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Re: SA Gun Owner to Us

Postby GreyShark » Tue Feb 07, 2012 8:12 pm

Tom Fernandez wrote:If you believe that terrorist actions are simply responses to an overreaching Western Influence, then you must also believe the black majority actions to remove firearms (though I disagree w/ the actions) are only a response to a "benevolent dictactorship."


They're doing much worse things than merely disarming whites, I've known South Africans and I've seen pictures that would turn your stomach. Is it a product of blowback? Yes. Is it in any way, shape or form justified? No!

Same thing with the American Indians. I believe the way they were treated was beyond description, Nazi-level stuff and even worse. That said, if they were to now treat the majority white population the way they were treated they'd be just as bad. Human history is full of evil and wrong but we have to move forward together, not keep repeating the horrors of the past.
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Re: SA Gun Owner to Us

Postby Legal Alien » Tue Feb 07, 2012 8:39 pm

Tom Fernandez wrote:Drop your defensive guard friend. I said nothing against you personally nor do I intend to. Also, my Ron Paul statement was not directed towards you.

I'm reading your point of view; just drop the defensive offense. My responses are not personal so please stop perceiving them as such. [smilie=cheers1.gif]


Unfortunately, to me this whole white genocide mess is a very personal issue and it is very difficult to separate theory from reality.
My own brother was the victim of black-on-white anarchy violence. Our family was blessed that he survived the attack.

All my family lives under daily threat of just such violence. THey live in fortresses/jails with bars, razor wire and/or glass shards atop 7ft walls surrounding their houses. They have to be constantly vigilant driving to/from work and/or shopping.
I have friends that were farmers that had to abandon their livelihood in disgust and out of fear for their lives.
I dread every day getting that phone call from a family member back in SOuth Africa that we have another victim to senseless violence in our family.

To me personally, your
.It appears that the true South African natives are and have been exacting revenge for the hundreds of armed repression by the Apartheid government
statement is akin to the now (in)famous Rev Wright's "America, your chickens have come home to roost" post 9/11 statement. I took exception (even as a newby American) at that statement at the time, and take exception to the callous and off-hand nature of your statement, when thousands of white Afrikaners are slaughtered annually and nobody takes any notice of it.

But then, we do have (at least in theory) a US Constitution and Bill of Rights, which protects your right to air your views. So feel free to excercise your 1st Amendment Rights all you want.
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Re: SA Gun Owner to Us

Postby Tom Fernandez » Tue Feb 07, 2012 9:39 pm

Legal Alien, I apologize if my statements came off as irrational. I meant no offense and pray your family remains safe. I agree w/ Grey Shark that the actions being taken by the natives in SA is not right. I know if I was in that situation myself (as a white man), I'd want to have my guns to defend my loved ones.

I again apologize and meant no offense.
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Re: SA Gun Owner to Us

Postby Legal Alien » Tue Feb 07, 2012 10:51 pm

Tom Fernandez wrote:Legal Alien, I apologize if my statements came off as irrational. I meant no offense and pray your family remains safe. I agree w/ Grey Shark that the actions being taken by the natives in SA is not right. I know if I was in that situation myself (as a white man), I'd want to have my guns to defend my loved ones.

I again apologize and meant no offense.

Tom, thank you. Apology accepted. We are gtg
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Re: SA Gun Owner to Us

Postby NonConformist » Wed Feb 08, 2012 10:39 am

just remeber LA, Tom went to college recently, so now he just knows so much that isnt true, its a side effect of being liberalized and institutionalized into their way of thinking, indoctrinated into Stateism etc, hes a good guy but has just been reprogrammed, so I try to cut him some slack. One day perhaps he'll retunr to us

Im sorry for what you wnt through in SA, but I appreciate your ability to say what really happened
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Re: SA Gun Owner to Us

Postby Tom Fernandez » Wed Feb 08, 2012 10:55 am

NonConformist wrote:just remeber LA, Tom went to college recently, so now he just knows so much that isnt true, its a side effect of being liberalized and institutionalized into their way of thinking, indoctrinated into Stateism etc, hes a good guy but has just been reprogrammed, so I try to cut him some slack. One day perhaps he'll retunr to us

Im sorry for what you wnt through in SA, but I appreciate your ability to say what really happened


You know what Juston, this may get me banned for a week or so, but this is long coming.

F.U.C.K YOU!!!
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