Florida Shooters Network

NonConformist wrote:...so I try to cut him [Tom] some slack...

No, you don't. You continue to insult and degrade the man because his new values don't meet your approval. By default you're insulting everyone whose opinions change with time and circumstances. Fortunately for you, you remain steadfast and unwavering to your core belief system of being a "professional pain in the ass." But sooner or later, you're going to run into someone who'll have no qualms about ramming your nuts so far up your throat you'll be able to lick your balls without breaking a sweat.

wow how brave to talk shit online, but it shows what kind of scumbags prone to violence many really are, I respect the 1A and dont threaten to ram anyone nut anywhere as a result, but that doesnt mean I support what everyone says, just their right to say it. Im glad to see Im still better than many. You may want to seek counceling for your anger issues BTW

SA was a bad situation for which there could be no happy ending--same for Rhodesia. Those kinds of societies just could not continue indefinitely--they were based upon unsustainable premises. Sometimes you just have to play a bad hand as best as you can. So while SA sucks today, it is probably still among the better outcomes that were possible in reality. Rhodesia is among the worst outcomes that were possible. So it goes. Comparing them to their former selves is kind of pointless, because those former selves were almost an illusion (although they seemed very real to the dominant minority at the time).

NonConformist wrote:wow how brave to talk shit online...

I'll talk shit to your face if we have the opportunity to meet. I suggest you start toning yourself down. You've been the topic of staff discussions and suspensions before and I have no problem showing you the door if you can't have the common courtesy to treat other members with a semblance of respect. This isn't a forum for you to come on and exercise that obvious chip on your shoulder that's so evident in many of your comments in many threads.

We should all treat each other with respect, but we shouldn't go around implying innocent people deserved to be murdered and that it's justifiable revenge. Wouldn't you agree?

The kind of incendiary language that Mr. Fernandez used is just asking for an emotional, irrational response and even though I enjoy discussing things with him this thread turned toxic right around that point.

I could barely believe what I was reading. The sentiment behind it was honestly quite breathtaking in its callous viciousness.

i don't see Tom as insuating that any innocent civilians deserved revenge. what i did see Tom say was that however undeserved the actions of retailitory vagabonds are, the current state of affairs was forseeable according to the Law of Unintended Consequences.

furthermore, he has clarified his position as saying he did not mean anyone deserved to die.

The tone in which it was written suggested a "they had it coming" kind of mindset and opinion. At least it did to me. I could be wrong about that and I sincerely hope that I am.

MikeFL86 wrote:I could be wrong about that and I sincerely hope that I am.

You are Mike. Despite my intentions however, I still apologized due to the misunderstanding.

Tom Fernandez wrote:

MikeFL86 wrote:I could be wrong about that and I sincerely hope that I am.

You are Mike. Despite my intentions however, I still apologized due to the misunderstanding.

Then I feel as if I should apologize for my misunderstanding and lack of thorough reading. Sorry, Tom.

MikeFL86 wrote:

Tom Fernandez wrote:

MikeFL86 wrote:I could be wrong about that and I sincerely hope that I am.

You are Mike. Despite my intentions however, I still apologized due to the misunderstanding.

Then I feel as if I should apologize for my misunderstanding and lack of thorough reading. Sorry, Tom.

No need brother.

Now that everyone has appologized to each other, can this thread get back to the original topic?

I read with great interest the 'letter to US", and wonder what it will take for people to wake up and face reality.

I'd like to call your attention to this portion of the letter, and if you would, please answer it:

Are you worthy of the sacrifices of those that went before you? Are you willing to do as much for those who will follow? Are you truly brave enough to remain free? Then why are you not as free as you used to be?

WHAT HAVE YOU AS AN INDIVIDUAL DONE TO SAFEGUARD AMERICA’S FREEDOM?

For my own part, I serve as a volunteer marksmanship instructor with Project Appleseed. I teach my fellow Americans not only how to be a better shot, but also about the sacrifices of our founding generation. Too few Americans even know WHY our War for Independence began; let alone have a keen knowledge of the people who wrested this country from the bonds of Tyranny, or the ideals which they fought for.

It is said that those who do not learn from their history are doomed to repeat its failures. If an American does not know WHY our forebears went to war against their own government, are we doomed to repeat that tragedy?

Our founding generation had a revolutionary idea; that is that We The People who hold true power in this country. With that power comes the responsibility to remain aware, active and involved in the system of government that our founding generation purchased for us with their own blood.

A society of sheep eventually begets a government of wolves.

The only "rights" that one has, are the ones they are willing to defend, even unto death.

Project Appleseed wrote:Our founding generation had a revolutionary idea; that is that We The People who hold true power in this country. With that power comes the responsibility to remain aware, active and involved in the system of government that our founding generation purchased for us with their own blood.

A society of sheep eventually begets a government of wolves.

The only "rights" that one has, are the ones they are willing to defend, even unto death.

Absolutely!!!!!!!!!!

There is indeed an important lesson to be gained from the SA situation, which no-one has addressed.

Two simple facts:

Cities such as Durban, Praetoria and Jo'burg were among the safest in the world in the 1960s. I believe one was the safest though I've forgotten which one. Now, the crime is as has been stated. I've not read all the posts and haven't seen if this was mentioned but I just loved the sideways flamethrower some SA inventor came up with to combat the carjackings. It speaks to how bad things have become.

The government and its policies were unsustainable as Tector has said quite succinctly.

The lesson derives from the answer to the question: Why was the government unsustainable?

Some may think it was from the goodness of the hearts of people coming to power. May have been a couple as not all white people think black people should be mistreated. But, that wasn't enough. The real cause was the entire world with some minor exceptions boycotted SA. It was the first use of coordinated sanctions against one nation I can think of. Some didn't even want Krugerrands because they represented SA.

One day, that idea may come back and bite us in the backside. Suppose the world takes a dislike to our policies. Suppose a bunch we have been trying to "bring up" now decide we are too imperialist or just use too many resources or, yes, are the source of too many arms. A general boycott like that imposed on SA would be an "interesting" situation. Yes, I know the Arab oil boycott. Look how bad that was, for those who remember, and it had less real effect than something like that would today. But, that was limited. We are very vulnerable. We import food now.

As a nation, we'd better think about how to deal with it.

Our non-strategic president made a major decision to expose us by turning down the Canadian pipeline. Sure, there may have been some election-year politics behind it but that's the problem.

I think the US is probably unlikely to be ostracized like SA. The nation that needs to learn that lesson is Israel. It is backing itself into a corner where (i) it wants the post-1967 borders but (ii) it will be hard-pressed to respect "democracy" given the demographics those borders bring, which, in turn, will (iii) make it tougher for the US to back Israel if increasingly moves away from "democracy".

You can see it happening. Israel is sustained by three things: it's own might; the US; and residual collective European guilt over the Holocaust. As Arab and Muslim influence increases in Europe, that third factor--already fading--is going to be gone. And since "democracy" is the great god of the modern era, to the extent Israel strays from its "ideals", the US in going to be increasingly pressured itself to pressure Israel.

Israel has a bad hand to play. Personally I think they are better off making a 2 state deal to preserve the essential nature of their country, because demographics will kill you every f*%! time in the long run, without exception. SA had plenty of military might themselves (they were close allies of Israel, and, apparently, they worked on nuclear projects together)--that didn't save them in the long run.

tector wrote: . . . . . SA had plenty of military might themselves (they were close allies of Israel, and, apparently, they worked on nuclear projects together)--that didn't save them in the long run.

Through the economic sanctions, SA was forced to become self-sufficient in many areass and we were able to develop a number of very innovative military weapon/transport solutions, some of which, after lifting international sanctions, found some lucrative markets - even some sold/used by US military in the sandbox. We even had our own FN license to build a FAL variant - the venerable R1 used in SA and Rhodesia bush wars.
We (SA) had a close relationship with Israel at the time and shared many technologies. We had successfully developed a nuclear weapon, but under pressure and in compliance with tie International Nuclear Non-prolifiration treaty, agreed to dismantle it and cease further development. I suspect the weapon system ended up in Israely nuclear arsenal (unofficial).

Due to the oil embargo (we were forced to buy crude on the 'high seas' from willing free lance sellers), we further developed and refined the German WWII Fischer-Tropsch(sp) petroleum from coal process and produced our own petrol(gasoline) from coal. We also modified the same process to turn natural gas into gasoline.

A side effect of firearm registration in SA.

Part of the requirements for firearm ownership is having an 'approved' (by SAPS) safe and having all your firearms locked in this safe at all times. SAPS can at their discretion conduct a compliance inspection whenever they feel like it.

What has been happening, is that elements in SAPS would advise their gang-banger buddies of all the details and the gangs would then (armed with illegal, unregistered AK's) stage a home invasion and with full knowledge of where in the house the safe is located, what is stored in it, they would go directly for the safe and it's contents. With resultance brutal consequences on the home owner and his/her family.

Makes a farce out of 'protecting yourself' I guess.