Florida Cities and Counties Knowingly Break State Law

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Florida Cities and Counties Knowingly Break State Law

Postby StogieC » Thu Jul 21, 2011 7:48 pm

For Immediate Release - Thursday, July 21, 2011

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Florida Carry, Inc.
Fighting for All Floridians Rights to Keep and Bear Arms.
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Florida Cities and Counties Knowingly Continue to Break State Law

Since 1987 it has been illegal for local Florida governments to regulate firearms and ammunition. The preemption statute was passed then so that Florida gun owners would no longer face a patchwork of local laws that was impossible to keep up with. It was also passed to protect Floridians from local lawmakers who do not respect the citizens’ right to bear arms.

The Florida Legislature never imagined that local leaders would thumb their noses at

Tallahassee and intentionally break the law despite clear statute and appellate court decisions. But they have for the past 24 years and the patchwork continued.

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In 2010, Florida Carry, Inc. Co-Executive Director Richard Nascak and a cadre of volunteers organized on web forums (FCC) and banded together in an grassroots effort to fix the problems at the local level. They contacted local governments and were shocked at the reactions they got. Local leaders were quite happy to make criminals of lawful gun owners because there was no penalty for politicians and bureaucrats breaking the state preemption law.

“So, sue us!” was the general and sometimes literal response. Lee County resident and attorney Patrick Buckley did just that. He filed a lawsuit against his county’s park carry ban, knowing there was no provision to even recover his costs and fees should he win.

Richard Nascak engaged State Rep. Paige Kreegel for help and the NRA got involved to draft legislation that would put teeth in the long-abused statute.

Volusia County traded arguments for months with Florida Carry, Inc. Co-Executive Director Sean Caranna over its woodland and airport carry bans but finally backed down and repealed the preempted ordinances in March 2011 once it became clear that the Firearms Preemption Enforceability bill was on track to pass.

During the 2011 session, the legislature made it clear that they had had enough. On October 1st 2011, new penalties and a vehicle for recovery of attorney’s fees and costs goes in to effect. With about 70 days left, to act Florida counties, cities, and agencies are on notice. Florida Carry will hold local leaders accountable and finally clear up the patchwork of unlawful restrictions on the right to bear arms in Florida.

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Sean Caranna
Florida Carry, Inc.
http://www.FloridaCarry.org

About: Florida Carry, Inc. is a non-profit, non-partisan, grassroots organization dedicated to advancing the fundamental civil right of all Floridians to keep and bear arms for self defense as guaranteed by the Second Amendment to the United States Constitution and Article I Section 8 of the Florida Constitution. Florida Carry, Inc. was organized by a group of Florida gun rights activists in order to better coordinate activities, effectively lobby the state legislature, and provide a legal entity capable of filing suit to demand compliance with state and federal law. Florida Carry stands only to represent our members and the over 7 million gun owners of Florida. We are not beholden to any national organization's agenda that may compromise that mission. Florida Carry works tirelessly toward repealing and striking down ill-conceived gun control laws that have been proven to provide safe havens to criminals and be deadly to law abiding citizens.
Sean C.
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Re: Florida Cities and Counties Knowingly Break State Law

Postby Palmguy » Thu Jul 21, 2011 8:42 pm

Yep. Okaloosa County has all of the public beaches in the county posted with signs that prohibit, among other things, firearms. The only reference in the county ordinances prohibits the use of firearms in those locations, but the signs do not make that distinction, and despite that fact it is still in violation of pre-emption. Bugs the hell out of me because I know that most people who see the sign are probably unaware of Florida law on this particular issue and will refrain from lawfully carrying their gun for fear of prosecution.
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Re: Florida Cities and Counties Knowingly Break State Law

Postby StogieC » Thu Jul 21, 2011 9:24 pm

Get me a picture if the signs so our lawyers can use them please.
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Re: Florida Cities and Counties Knowingly Break State Law

Postby Palmguy » Thu Jul 21, 2011 9:47 pm

Will do.
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Re: Florida Cities and Counties Knowingly Break State Law

Postby BasketCase » Thu Jul 21, 2011 9:47 pm

I see a map of FL that is mostly red. Do you have any details on what you are opposing in each county?
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Re: Florida Cities and Counties Knowingly Break State Law

Postby Dave M » Fri Jul 22, 2011 8:10 pm

Stay on course your efforts are making a difference.
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Re: Florida Cities and Counties Knowingly Break State Law

Postby toyodan » Thu Aug 04, 2011 11:05 am

in Miami beach the have a sign posted on the beach no gun or toy guns
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Re: Florida Cities and Counties Knowingly Break State Law

Postby StogieC » Thu Aug 04, 2011 11:55 am

toyodan wrote:in Miami beach the have a sign posted on the beach no gun or toy guns


It should be gone by Oct, 1st. If not. Florida Carry's Lawyers are Locked, Cocked, and Ready to Rock.
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Re: Florida Cities and Counties Knowingly Break State Law

Postby taseal » Sat Aug 06, 2011 12:00 pm

Where is the statute that says that county/municipality cant enforce tigther gun laws.

Just curious. Want to read the statute.

I should have been a lawyer (as much as I hate them)
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Re: Florida Cities and Counties Knowingly Break State Law

Postby mjmensale » Sat Aug 06, 2011 12:33 pm

taseal wrote:Where is the statute that says that county/municipality cant enforce tigther gun laws.


FS 790.33
America is at that awkward stage. It's too late to work within the system, but too early to shoot the bastards. Claire Wolfe

Don't pick a fight with an old man. If he is too old to fight, he'll just kill you. John Steinbeck

If you try to take our firearms, we will kill you. Mike Vanderboegh
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Re: Florida Cities and Counties Knowingly Break State Law

Postby taseal » Sat Aug 06, 2011 1:33 pm

mjmensale wrote:
taseal wrote:Where is the statute that says that county/municipality cant enforce tigther gun laws.


FS 790.33


Wow, couldn't be anymore plain English...

I under how many people got NtA or arrested for this, and got away with some $$$

I doubt the officer would get in trouble. But the county/city would

How about waiting period? It says it can't exceed 3 days... Isn't it 5 here down SE?

Also says people who have a receipt of a prior firearm sale from the same establishment don't have to wait either.

And police officers as well... Gun shops can't and will not sell to officers here without a ccw. Which is why some of them have a ccw... Lol
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Re: Florida Cities and Counties Knowingly Break State Law

Postby mjmensale » Sat Aug 06, 2011 7:46 pm

taseal wrote:
mjmensale wrote:
taseal wrote:Where is the statute that says that county/municipality cant enforce tigther gun laws.


FS 790.33


Wow, couldn't be anymore plain English...


To clarify, this is the current wording which may change (stronger) October 1 when HB 45 takes effect.
America is at that awkward stage. It's too late to work within the system, but too early to shoot the bastards. Claire Wolfe

Don't pick a fight with an old man. If he is too old to fight, he'll just kill you. John Steinbeck

If you try to take our firearms, we will kill you. Mike Vanderboegh
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Re: Florida Cities and Counties Knowingly Break State Law

Postby taseal » Sat Aug 06, 2011 7:53 pm

what about the 3 day wait period stuff? the tri county is breaking the law when they make it 5 day then... same thing with not selling to officers with a 5 day wait, or the receipt from same establishment
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Re: Florida Cities and Counties Knowingly Break State Law

Postby StogieC » Sat Aug 06, 2011 8:19 pm

taseal wrote:what about the 3 day wait period stuff? the tri county is breaking the law when they make it 5 day then... same thing with not selling to officers with a 5 day wait, or the receipt from same establishment


3 day wait is in the Florida Constitution. Art. 1 Sec. 8.

5 day wait? where? what county. Florida Carry lawyers are standing by.
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Re: Florida Cities and Counties Knowingly Break State Law

Postby czharry » Sat Aug 06, 2011 8:41 pm

The 5 day wait, not counting weekends or holidays, has been in effect in certain counties for many years. The State law left it up to the county commisioners to add more days to the State mandated law, but not to exceed a total of 5 days.
If you don't have a concealed license, the 5 day wait on handguns and long guns is legal, which in most cases, turns into a 7 day waiting period.
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Re: Florida Cities and Counties Knowingly Break State Law

Postby StogieC » Sun Aug 07, 2011 1:21 am

Ok, I thought only 3 was allowed. I'll have to review this one. Honestly I have not had a lot of complaints about it so it has not really been on my radar.
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Re: Florida Cities and Counties Knowingly Break State Law

Postby taseal » Sun Aug 07, 2011 8:00 am

czharry wrote:The 5 day wait, not counting weekends or holidays, has been in effect in certain counties for many years. The State law left it up to the county commisioners to add more days to the State mandated law, but not to exceed a total of 5 days.
If you don't have a concealed license, the 5 day wait on handguns and long guns is legal, which in most cases, turns into a 7 day waiting period.


where does it say in the state law 5 days?

The statute clearly says 3 days.
LIMITED EXCEPTION; COUNTY WAITING-PERIOD ORDINANCES.—
(a) Any county may have the option to adopt a waiting-period ordinance requiring a waiting period of up to, but not to exceed, 3 working days between the purchase and delivery of a handgun. For purposes of this subsection, “purchase” means payment of deposit, payment in full, or notification of intent to purchase. Adoption of a waiting-period ordinance, by any county, shall require a majority vote of the county commission on votes on waiting-period ordinances. This exception is limited solely to individual counties and is limited to the provisions and restrictions contained in this subsection.
(b) Ordinances authorized by this subsection shall apply to all sales of handguns to individuals by a retail establishment except those sales to individuals exempted in this subsection. For purposes of this subsection, “retail establishment” means a gun shop, sporting goods store, pawn shop, hardware store, department store, discount store, bait or tackle shop, or any other store or shop that offers handguns for walk-in retail sale but does not include gun collectors shows or exhibits, or gun shows.


And our contradicting county ordinance... That breaks state law (Pal, beach. Although dade and broward as well)
Sec. 28-23.  Mandatory waiting period; criminal history records check requirement.
(a)   No person shall deliver a firearm to another person, other than a licensed dealer, licensed manufacturer or licensed importer, in connection with the sale of such firearm for a period of five (5) business days from the date of the sale.


It's really clear as day. There are no 'exceptions' in 790.33 that give permission to certain counties to exceed 3 days.

You don't hear people complaining about it because most of us have CWP. But for the ones that don't this sucks. Have you thoroughly read the statute? There are exceptions that void the waiting period eve, such as having a receipt of a firearm from the same establishment from a previous purchase.

I'd say if you're going after the statute, clean up the subsections with it :)

The waiting period doesn't concern me, but it makes me real mad that a county thinks they are above the state law and not follow it.
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Re: Florida Cities and Counties Knowingly Break State Law

Postby StogieC » Sun Aug 07, 2011 9:00 am

Thanks! I'll make sure our lawyers are looking for these that exceed 3 days.

55 days until Oct 1st...
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Re: Florida Cities and Counties Knowingly Break State Law

Postby mjmensale » Sun Aug 07, 2011 9:23 am

taseal wrote: where does it say in the state law 5 days?


In the state's constitution -

Article 8, Section 5 (b) Local option.—
Each county shall have the authority to require a criminal history records check and a 3 to 5-day waiting period, excluding weekends and legal holidays, in connection with the sale of any firearm occurring within such county. For purposes of this subsection, the term “sale” means the transfer of money or other valuable consideration for any firearm when any part of the transaction is conducted on property to which the public has the right of access. Holders of a concealed weapons permit as prescribed by general law shall not be subject to the provisions of this subsection when purchasing a firearm.

Article 8, Section 5(b) is out of sync with FS 790.33(2)(a) but apparently no one has ever questioned it. You know the counties aren't going to.
America is at that awkward stage. It's too late to work within the system, but too early to shoot the bastards. Claire Wolfe

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Re: Florida Cities and Counties Knowingly Break State Law

Postby taseal » Sun Aug 07, 2011 9:28 am

So our state statutes contradict our state constitution lol...

I suppose comsitutuion supersedes statutues? Not sure about that one...

And yeah, counties def won't question that one lol...

mjmensale wrote:
taseal wrote: where does it say in the state law 5 days?


In the state's constitution -

Article 8, Section 5 (b) Local option.—
Each county shall have the authority to require a criminal history records check and a 3 to 5-day waiting period, excluding weekends and legal holidays, in connection with the sale of any firearm occurring within such county. For purposes of this subsection, the term “sale” means the transfer of money or other valuable consideration for any firearm when any part of the transaction is conducted on property to which the public has the right of access. Holders of a concealed weapons permit as prescribed by general law shall not be subject to the provisions of this subsection when purchasing a firearm.

Article 8, Section 5(b) is out of sync with FS 790.33(2)(a) but apparently no one has ever questioned it. You know the counties aren't going to.
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