Florida Shooters Network

by **Erik** » Sun May 09, 2010 9:35 am

Hey guys I know this has been around on the internet, but would rather have opinions of people I routinely interact with. I have been beating around the idea of which rifle to buy. I need some help in deciding which one to buy.

Purpose: The idea of this rifle is something that can very good/excellent accuracy that I can use and learn how to use as a SHTF rifle. At the same time it's something I would like to go and shoot a lot of rounds down range without worry of something falling apart or constantly shifting zero. I would also like to easily transport 'ready' ammo, which would lend the hands to the AR10.

I can't figure if I want the speed of a semi over the excellent accuray a bolt gun. How much of a difference in time does it take to rack the bolt back and load another one up? Enough to make me hesitant I guess. I do know that a 2 piece rifle (AR10) is not as accurate as a bolt gun simply on the designs of the two platforms. But is it accurate enough? I've heard that AR10's have a difficult time chamber/loading NATO rounds and are sometimes finicky with commercial ammo as well. Can anyone validate this?

1) What are the differences in MOA accuracy out to 1000yds on average?
2) What would be the ideal length of barrel for each platform. Also what twist barrel?
3) What are your guy's take on each platform? (If you've had experience)

It's to the point where I really want this done right. I'm tired of buyeing cheaper alternatives and being left for the desire of something that is better.

by **mjmensale** » Sun May 09, 2010 9:43 am

First define what game you want to play. Kill the "X" or kill the target?

And what is "ready" ammo?

by **Erik** » Sun May 09, 2010 10:17 am

Ready ammo I mean in a magazine for faster reloads. If SHTF I would rather have faster reload. Now with the game i'd love to kill the x but small paper target at 1000 is fine with me.

by **glockpacker** » Sun May 09, 2010 10:31 am

I'm getting back into AR-10 shooting, primarily for a June 1,000 yard match at Camp Lejeun (sp?)

I shot out the barrel on "Nick's Rifle" after about 2,500 rounds of match shooting, and now have a used upper I'm going to try on it. Have NO idea what the barrel is like. I lucked out the first time with a great one, and at best got a six inch group at 600 yards. DPMS admits that a factory barrel is just that, and you may get anywhere from 1/4 MOA to 1 1/2 MOA accuracy, depending on the luck of the draw.

Talk to Archangle (Steve) about the 700. He rebarreled his with a big Brux, and he's trying to perforate the X-ring at 600 with it.

I had no loading problems, by the way, with the AR-10. But the only place I could use the magazine was on the 200-yard sight-in range, because in prone match shooting, only single-round loading is allowed.

Since I do long-range shooting, I like the longest barrel possible. There are many on here who profess to have fantastic long range accuracy with 16 and 18 inch barrels, but I've never seen it happen. The shortest barrels at port malabar are 20 inch HBAR's on AR-15,s. I have a 26" Match barrel on my Bushmaster AR-15, and the DPMS LR-308 Comes with a 24 inch barrel.

by **IDPAMASTER** » Sun May 09, 2010 10:36 am

mjmensale wrote:First define what game you want to play. Kill the "X" or kill the target?

You actually have a 36" target to hit,so really how accurate does it have to be?

And what is "ready" ammo?

If detachable mags are what you want,not a problem. HS Precision makes drop in bottom metal with 5-10 round mags,and there is Seekins which are good,and use their own mags.I think the Badger M5 is the best of them all,and there is also fellow board member CDI's conversion. The last 2 take the AICS 5/10 round mags.There was a conversion around that used M1A mags,I forget who made it,but I remember it having prolems.

by **ger42** » Sun May 09, 2010 10:49 am

glockpacker wrote:I'm getting back into AR-10 shooting, primarily for a June 1,000 yard match at Camp Lejeun (sp?)
I had no loading problems, by the way, with the AR-10. But the only place I could use the magazine was on the 200-yard sight-in range, because in prone match shooting, only single-round loading is allowed.

What mag do you use shooting prone?

by **IDPAMASTER** » Sun May 09, 2010 10:53 am

glockpacker wrote:Since I do long-range shooting, I like the longest barrel possible. There are many on here who profess to have fantastic long range accuracy with 16 and 18 inch barrels, but I've never seen it happen.

There has been extensive studies on the subject by the military,and the "magic number" they concluded was around 20"

Nothing wrong with short barrels with a fast twist,included 18" from a bolt gun.

On another note,next time GP,get your barrel nitrided. If it had been,you would still be shooting it.Barrels are too expensive not to.

by **DaveM** » Sun May 09, 2010 11:36 am

by **mjmensale** » Sun May 09, 2010 12:05 pm

glockpacker wrote:Since I do long-range shooting, I like the longest barrel possible. There are many on here who profess to have fantastic long range accuracy with 16 and 18 inch barrels, but I've never seen it happen.

Well, you will now. Frank Galli, aka Lowlight, is the owner of http://www.snipershide.com and a major proponent of the "shorter is better" school of thinking. In this one he's using a bolt gun but there are others with gassers also. There's also a ton of information on the Hide about short barreled weapons.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=15qj032U ... re=related

I'm going to make this a sticky so the unbelievers will have it readily available and so that I don't have to constantly chase it down.

by **IDPAMASTER** » Sun May 09, 2010 12:08 pm

Damnit Moe,you beat me too it. This was the same video I was going to post. Seeing is believing. [smilie=cheers1.gif]

by **wakkoss** » Sun May 09, 2010 12:27 pm

Erik, I asked this same question a couple months ago. Bolt action is more accurate than the AR based rifles, but the difference is negligible for a SHTF scenario. If you need it in an emergency, it'll be to shoot game for food or people for defense. 1/2 MOA to 1 1/2 MOA is completely irrelevant. I decided on the DPMS LR308 with 16" barrel. Good for 1 MOA +/- which is just fine. Hicap mags are ready availble and cheap, and the platform is very versatile. Plans for mine include a scope and a mini red dot. Here's a picture of one of the guys on ARF, mine won't be nearly this bad ass, but just as functional.

by **Erik** » Sun May 09, 2010 12:37 pm

mjmensale wrote:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=15qj032UJ1I&feature=related

Does someone have a rag in the "Pay it forward" thread? I need to wipe my keyboard! =D>

by **Erik** » Sun May 09, 2010 12:42 pm

Ian,
Good info. I am honestly leaning more towards the AR10 because it's more versatile, and it is good enough for what I'm looking for. There's a few complete custom with a .5 MOA promise that are like $2200 and I have been heavily thinking about those because they are already good to go. I believe they are either 18" or 20" Kreiger barrels. I just figured that was too short. I may have to go back and buy it.

Then I have to buy glass. LOL

by **Erik** » Sun May 09, 2010 12:44 pm

I need to figure something out. I have 1900 rounds of .308 Sierra HPBT Match Kings waiting to be put together for my rifle...LOL.

by **mjmensale** » Sun May 09, 2010 12:47 pm

wakkoss wrote:I decided on the DPMS LR308 with 16" barrel...Here's a picture of one of the guys on ARF, mine won't be nearly this bad ass, but just as functional.

Just so there's no confusion here, that picture is of the new LaRue Tactical OBR .308 rifle, not a DPMS LR308. [smilie=cheers1.gif]

by **wakkoss** » Sun May 09, 2010 12:50 pm

I thought about the various barrel types and brands and finally decided that the run of the mill 16" DPMS was fine for me. The longest distance range around here is only 300 yards, and I'm not likely to shoot farther than that, so the extra money was better spent elsewhere. Again, YMMV.

ETA: Sorry, I should have mentioned that the rifle in the picture is the LaRue. I was checking out the setup, not the actual base rifle. Thanks for pointing that out, Moe.

by **Erik** » Sun May 09, 2010 12:57 pm

Yea you do have a point. I just can't figure out what the hell I want really. There are so many different variations out there. ](*,)

by **ger42** » Sun May 09, 2010 1:42 pm

I did have a DPMS LR308 with 16" barrel but I looked in my safe and it's gone. Will the person who borrowed my please let me know when I'll get it back? [smilie=011.gif]

I think I have a 24" DPMS upper on order for it I'll have to check. I like the stock on the LaRue Tactical OBR .308. I just sold a CZ 22LR so maybe I'll use that money to get the stock. Maybe the person who has my DPMS 308 can help me acquire a stock. I may or may not keep the 16". SHTF I'll use my SIG 556 up close and the DPMS 24" for the long shots. I've always liked longer barrels for the sight radius but that only made sense when I shot iron sights. I still like the longer barrels today because it makes the gun look manly. These days I need all the help I can get. [smilie=012.gif]

by **glockpacker** » Sun May 09, 2010 11:02 pm

ger42 wrote:
glockpacker wrote:I'm getting back into AR-10 shooting, primarily for a June 1,000 yard match at Camp Lejeun (sp?)
I had no loading problems, by the way, with the AR-10. But the only place I could use the magazine was on the 200-yard sight-in range, because in prone match shooting, only single-round loading is allowed.

What mag do you use shooting prone?

Ger, it doesn't matter what mag you use as long as it doesn't get in the way. The only reason for the mag to be inserted is to keep your round from falling down the magwell onto the ground when you're trying to load the rifle, and to lock the bolt open when you shoot. This goes for .308, .223, and any other caliber with a magwell.

by **68LSS1** » Mon May 10, 2010 4:31 am

Erik, come up to Hernando and you can shoot my OBR...that will make your mind up...you just have to feed it.

ETA: 18" barrel

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